"druggies"

[Fantoosh]

I had to start this thread because i cant believe the opinions of some people. After reading the "cost of druggies" thread I was amazed at the way people think. I know people can think the way they want to and have their own opinions, but i would just like you to read this and reply.

This is mainly to ask the people who think that people who take drugs are a waste of space, etc what they would think of a senario like this? Just a random one from my head from the real life stories I have read about. Will try to make it as short and not too many details haha

Okay, there is a young girl who has been abused by her parents for her whole life, and she has never had the courage or self confidence to tell anyone about it. She eventually gets the courage to run away from her family life and ends up with a new group of friends who happen to be drug addicts. They become her new family, and considering how horrible her old family were to her, she sees these people as loving and that they actually care for her. She also uses drugs to help her forget about her old life and things that have happened to her. She does not try to get help from the authorities or help groups, etc as she feels that she can trust any one apart form her new friends, and has no confidence to even if she really wanted to.

Does she really need to hear that people hate drug addicts and they should not be given they same treatment as other people in this world? Would this attitude make her feel any better about herself? What she needs is to know is that if she needs the help it is there and no one is going to judge her for the mistakes she has made and the path she has taken in life. So, she doesnt deserve the help from the government who were the ones who let her get into that situation in the first place by not noticing, or giving her help when she was younger and really needed it?


OK thats my rant or whatever you want to call it over. I just wanted to tell people that they may be a lot of people who takes drugs, but its not always because they are bad and horrible people, or people that are weak. Every one needs to be treated the same in this world I say. The fact that there are people that think they are better than others cause problems for people that have low self esteem etc, which can drive people to take drugs to have the confidence to socialise and make friends without worrying that others are judging them.

Yes I do know that there are some bad people in the world that take drugs and do bad stuff, but not everyone has got into the addiction the same way.

I do know that the people on here arent stupid and do realise this, but I just had to write it to calm me down. lol

And to say that all people who take drugs, even those people who will maybe take a little for a night out, are bad people that will steal and hurt others is so stupid and stereotypical. Its like saying, all people who are from scotland are ginger. lol

Okay Im finished. I just had to write that and put my opinion across. was too angry after reading that thread. Hmm reading that back, do I sound bossy and like I think I know everything? I dont think that. haha

[vodka-queen]

Very well said fantoosh i'm with you a hundred percent on that.

[connieb19]

There's also plenty of bad/evil folk who have never touched a drug in their life and steal fom people just because they are greedy. What should happen to these folk?

[Gizmo]

I never bothered reading all the tripe spouted by the self appointed moral majority, just more eliteist crap as usual.
Having been involved in a social scene where recreational drugs were common place i saw quite a few people that are 'highly respected in the community' taking pills, speed, coke and dope on a regualr basis, the question these days is not 'who is taking drugs' but 'who is not taking drugs'

[Fantoosh]

I never bothered reading all the tripe spouted by the self appointed moral majority, just more eliteist crap as usual.
Having been involved in a social scene where recreational drugs were common place i saw quite a few people that are 'highly respected in the community' taking pills, speed, coke and dope on a regualr basis, the question these days is not 'who is taking drugs' but 'who is not taking drugs'

Excatly. That is very true. You would be very very surprised at the people who take drugs. I think some people like to try to be ignorant to whats really going on around them, or maybe they actually dont know how common drugs are these days.

[Fantoosh]

There's also plenty of bad/evil folk who have never touched a drug in their life and steal fom people just because they are greedy. What should happen to these folk?

Jail?

[Lord Flasheart]

In life people will always have opinions you dont like. Accept it. By all means argue the point and then move on. I get the feeling you were referring to me as I was fairly vocal on the point. If you were I wont apologise for my views, if you dont like them then thats up to you. Or am I not supposed to say anything in case someone may not like it ??, to that I say tough. Do you know not ONE person in PM's asked me how the lass that was slashed fared afterwards but there seemed plenty of sympathy for addicts. Speaks volumes that does, and a sad indictment of the priorities of people today.

And I have been there in case you are wondering, I know what it is like to be at the end of your tether. In my case, I had a childhood I have spent my adult life trying to forget. I was in put in care numerous times due to problems with my stepdad, I was regularly beaten, I ran away many times and had every excuse for wallowing in self pity. Maybe I should have got out of my head on smack instead of making something of myself eh ??, I had to drag myself out of that at a VERY young age and get on with it so forgive me if I dont collapse with sympathy for people who chose the other path. It was the only option for me to get on with it. I feel I have earned the right to look and say "get a grip", why shouldnt I ??, I didnt then and dont now want sympathy I just wanted to be bigger and better than people expected. I made it, I worked hard and kept going. And having done so I dont want my taxes spent feeding a junkies habit when there are far more worthy causes. Why should people involved in an illegal activity get free treatment when say Asthmatics dont ??, and cancer patients cant get drugs that would help them as they are "too expensive".. that is a national disgrace to me.

Your post comes across as making out it isnt their fault. The bottom line in life is that as an individual YOU are responsible for YOUR actions. You make the point about the Goverment helping this hypothetical person who is only in the situation because, as you maintain the Goverment wont help them !!, at which point pray does this hypothetical individual start to take some responsibility for themselves ??, and it is a fact that Drug Addicts will and do turn to crime to feed their habit. There is a 17 year old lassie that can give some insider info on that, how do you think she feels if she sees a lad she likes knowing she has a scar that is visible right down her cheek, despite the best efforts of plastic surgeons she will always have it. The guy who did it showed no remorse and he took the best path in my view in overdosing and removing himself from the gene pool, I hope its hot where he is.

So I wont be taking a seat at the pity party for reasons that should be obvious now. If you want to then thats up to you, its your view and fair play to you for posting it .. but I dont agree .. forcefully.

LF.

[Gleber2]

Excatly. That is very true. You would be very very surprised at the people who take drugs.

Just over 400 deaths from drugs last year in Scotland and 75 of them from prescribed methadon. Over 20000 deaths from alcohol and even more from nicotine. It seems that the illegal drug user has a higher life expectancy than the legal drug users.
In a recent TV program listing the most dangerous of the Top Twenty commonly abused drugs, alcohol was 4th(or 5th) and cannabis was at 11 and extasy at 18(?) and yet we see alcohol adverts pushing the stuff at us every day.
Get rid of the bigoted hypocritical attitudes and see the whole problem of dangerous drugs and stop hiding behind the legal/illegal aspect.
Drugs, illegal and legal, are consumed by a very large part of our population and to say that a heroin user should be offered euthanasia is inhuman and inhumane to say the least.
Every addict is some-one's son or daughter and has as much right to help as any other ill person.
The attitudes expressed by some Orgers in the other Druggie thread disgust me.

[moureen]

Thank you Fantoosh and other "orgers" for supporting this thread.

[joxville]

I have a sister-in-law who is a habitual skunk/cannabis user. She will never be prosecuted for using it because doctors and specialist's say that she is a manic depressive and bi-polar, whatever the hell that means.
She is only allowed to work part-time because of her 'condition' and so qualifies for incapacity benefit and a free car. She has used all sorts of drugs since she was a teenager, and is now 48. She has attempted suicide 14 times since the age of 19! In my view her condition was most likely caused by the drug abuse. She also got several sessions of hypnosis to help her depression and also got hypnosis to come off fags yet still smokes.

My sister-in-laws friend is 39, has used drugs since she was a teenager and is now on methadone. She has been on methadone for 5 years but whenever the doctors say it's time she started to try a recovery program she threatens or attempts suicide, so they leave her on it. She hasn't worked since she was 21.

I smoked for thirty years yet had to pay for my own hypnotherapy treatment to quit. It was my choice to start and my choice to quit-no one forced me to do either. I've worked all my life, paid my taxes and had zilch off this state. For the privilege of being a law abiding citizen I have the honour of being taken for a mug.

My mother died of cancer. She couldn't get the treatment or drugs that would have either saved her or prolonged her life. Do I feel aggrieved that Government policy and we as a society failed her, yet spend millions on addicts? You bet your backside I do. I also include addict's of legal and illegal drugs.

As much as some people do want to come off drugs and I believe they should be helped, I don't believe in feeding their habit by giving a substitute. Cold turkey and 3 months on a remote island will soon get them to shape up and realise what life is about.

I have to side with Lord F's view, but then, I'm sure you guessed that anyway.

[Fantoosh]

In life people will always have opinions you dont like. Accept it. By all means argue the point and then move on. I get the feeling you were referring to me as I was fairly vocal on the point. If you were I wont apologise for my views, if you dont like them then thats up to you. Or am I not supposed to say anything in case someone may not like it ??, to that I say tough. Do you know not ONE person in PM's asked me how the lass that was slashed fared afterwards but there seemed plenty of sympathy for addicts. Speaks volumes that does, and a sad indictment of the priorities of people today.

And I have been there in case you are wondering, I know what it is like to be at the end of your tether. In my case, I had a childhood I have spent my adult life trying to forget. I was in put in care numerous times due to problems with my stepdad, I was regularly beaten, I ran away many times and had every excuse for wallowing in self pity. Maybe I should have got out of my head on smack instead of making something of myself eh ??, I had to drag myself out of that at a VERY young age and get on with it so forgive me if I dont collapse with sympathy for people who chose the other path. It was the only option for me to get on with it. I feel I have earned the right to look and say "get a grip", why shouldnt I ??, I didnt then and dont now want sympathy I just wanted to be bigger and better than people expected. I made it, I worked hard and kept going. And having done so I dont want my taxes spent feeding a junkies habit when there are far more worthy causes. Why should people involved in an illegal activity get free treatment when say Asthmatics dont ??, and cancer patients cant get drugs that would help them as they are "too expensive".. that is a national disgrace to me.

Your post comes across as making out it isnt their fault. The bottom line in life is that as an individual YOU are responsible for YOUR actions. You make the point about the Goverment helping this hypothetical person who is only in the situation because, as you maintain the Goverment wont help them !!, at which point pray does this hypothetical individual start to take some responsibility for themselves ??, and it is a fact that Drug Addicts will and do turn to crime to feed their habit. There is a 17 year old lassie that can give some insider info on that, how do you think she feels if she sees a lad she likes knowing she has a scar that is visible right down her cheek, despite the best efforts of plastic surgeons she will always have it. The guy who did it showed no remorse and he took the best path in my view in overdosing and removing himself from the gene pool, I hope its hot where he is.

So I wont be taking a seat at the pity party for reasons that should be obvious now. If you want to then thats up to you, its your view and fair play to you for posting it .. but I dont agree .. forcefully.

LF.

Firstly I think it is a bit strange that some ‘Database error’ screen keeps coming up now when I tried to get back on the forum to reply to this thread. Funny that it has never happened before. Is someone trying to tell me something? lol

Hey, thanks for your honest reply and I congratulate you on making a better life for yourself, and taking the right path. Just out of curiosity were you ever offered drugs when you were at this point in your life?

You say that you wanted to make yourself become a better and bigger person than you thought people would think you were. Some people may feel that it wouldn’t matter to any one what they made of themselves, so what would the point be? Any one in the scenario I described may think, well the people that care for me take drugs, they are her role models practically. Who else would she look to as a role model? The parents that abused her? OK this is off the point. We can argue this till we are blue in the face, its not going to make a difference.


What that guy did to that young girl was his choice, he did it, just because he was on drugs at the time does not mean that all people who are addicted or take drugs will act this way. I agree that he should have done his time or paid in some way. I also agree that he should not have been let off because he was on drugs, he should have served the same as any one else. But what about the people who slash or kill people that are not on drugs? There are plenty of them, why just target the ones who are?
I can totally understand how the young girl must feel, as a young woman myself I fully understand the importance of looks to a girl or woman and how it affects your confidence and self esteem.

I understand that the government has got its priorities to sort out when it comes to what they fund and what they don’t, as I think asthmatics should be given free inhalers. This is going off the point again. My point is that people should never think or say they are better than anyone else because of the mistakes they have made in their lives and the life they have chosen to live. I know someone is going to say “what about murderers and rapists?” that’s not the people I was talking about, we were discussing people who are addicted to drugs, so there is no point in saying it. Maybe they need some sort of help as well, or maybe they are just bad people through and through.

I was always taught about equality. Is saying people that are addicted to drugs should not be given help or money from the government for help equality? Its just showing that there are a lot of people who only care about themselves and their own. What would you do if one of your children became a drug addict and was refused help from the government, bet you wouldn’t think the same then? If the money from the government can help someone get their life back on track so that it can stop or prevent these people from crimes, then I think it’s well spent money. Ok off track again, Ill shut up.

[Fantoosh]

Thank you Fantoosh and other "orgers" for supporting this thread.

I thank you for supporting what i wrote. Was half expecting everyone to have the opposite opinion. Its good to see that there are some people who understand and agree.

[scorrie]

I watched a documentary about drugs in Britain on BBC 2 a couple of years ago. The BBC team followed a guy who was dealing drugs under the guise of a taxi business. Far from being about "losers" desperate for a hit on the street corner, this guy's customers were well-to-do people, living in the best areas of town. Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, City Traders etc, you name them, they were all buying coke from this guy. We are not talking dark soda pop or smokeless fuels here either!!

One Doctor voiced the fact that "Outside of my family, my dealer is the most important person in my life"

Doctors and Dentists have plenty of spare cash, they don't need to steal to feed their habit. It is probable that "Druggies" wouldn't have to commit crimes either, if they were on similar salaries that, incidentally, "Our" taxes help to finance.

I think it wise to look at the bigger picture and see that many, supposedly "respectable" professionals in our country use drugs. We also have a legal drug, in alcohol, that causes, arguably, the biggest problems in society. I would say that, if you are intoxicated and causing problems to society, it shouldn't matter too much what caused the intoxication. Drunks should surely be equally responsible for THEIR being pissed, as a "druggie" is for being stoned.

[brandy]

in my honest and humble oppinion, i think you will find that for the majority people who have delt with drugs and drug users and have in general have had a hard life but now pulling o pulled themselves to a place they would much rathe be, are the ones you will find very anti-drugs and extremly hard on users and abusers.
it tends to be the people who have never delt with the fall out the violence, the pain and degradation that comes with being a drugie or being involved with one that has the lets help them, they are misunderstood view.
there are always exceptions to the rules, and reasons why people do what they do.
However, in most cases innocent children/young people are not held down and foced to take drugs, or have no clue that its a bad thing and they shouldnt do it.
if a young lonley immpresionalble traumatised soul, does decide to take drugs because they are lonley and just want to belong. then that is a choice that they have made. knowing that drugs are dangerous that they can hurt and kill, and turn you into something that you are not normally.
its amazing how sorry, someone is when they have a clear head. how easy it is to say IM SORRY! i will never do it again, i didnt mean to.
and truly mean it, just to turn around and do it again.
when someone you know and love is strung out, all you can do is grieve. Because that person that you love is dead. its not them in the shell of you husband, wife, child, mother, father. but a monster, that is only a shadow of the person they were.
you want to belive to the point that you are blind, that you can help them. that if only they were someone out there that would just reach out. give a hand. every day as you pray that some new program will give them that chance to turn their lives around. that its not going to end up with them or some one else hurt or worse.
you blind yourself to the fact that unless they want help nothing will ever change until they are dead or behind bars.
it is a soul destroying process, and personally i would give the most of my sympathy to the familys of those who are lost. those whos loved ones look on and see the nightmare with no way to help.

[padfoot]

I have a sister-in-law who is a habitual skunk/cannabis user. She will never be prosecuted for using it because doctors and specialist's say that she is a manic depressive and bi-polar, whatever the hell that means.
She is only allowed to work part-time because of her 'condition' and so qualifies for incapacity benefit and a free car. She has used all sorts of drugs since she was a teenager, and is now 48. She has attempted suicide 14 times since the age of 19! In my view her condition was most likely caused by the drug abuse.

My sister-in-laws friend is 39, has used drugs since she was a teenager and is now on methadone. She has been on methadone for 5 years but whenever the doctors say it's time she started to try a recovery program she threatens or attempts suicide, so they leave her on it.

My mother died of cancer. She couldn't get the treatment or drugs that would have either saved her or prolonged her life. Do I feel aggrieved that Government policy and we as a society failed her, yet spend millions on addicts? You bet your backside I do.

As much as some people do want to come off drugs and I believe they should be helped, I don't believe in feeding their habit by giving a substitute. Cold turkey and 3 months on a remote island will soon get them to shape up and realise what life is about.

I have to side with Lord F's view, but then, I'm sure you guessed that anyway.

i thought that the point of methadone is to ween them off it thats wat the docters should be doing since you obviouly havent had a drug problem so you wouldnt know what its like going cold turkey and neither do i but i have herd from a few ex drug addicts who have and couldnt make it because its really hard i think the methadone is really good bt not if you are giving them just as much all the time they should be weening them off it

[padfoot]

I watched a documentary about drugs in Britain on BBC 2 a couple of years ago. The BBC team followed a guy who was dealing drugs under the guise of a taxi business. Far from being about "losers" desperate for a hit on the street corner, this guy's customers were well-to-do people, living in the best areas of town. Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, City Traders etc, you name them, they were all buying coke from this guy. We are not talking dark soda pop or smokeless fuels here either!!

One Doctor voiced the fact that "Outside of my family, my dealer is the most important person in my life"

Doctors and Dentists have plenty of spare cash, they don't need to steal to feed their habit. It is probable that "Druggies" wouldn't have to commit crimes either, if they were on similar salaries that, incidentally, "Our" taxes help to finance.

I think it wise to look at the bigger picture and see that many, supposedly "respectable" professionals in our country use drugs. We also have a legal drug, in alcohol, that causes, arguably, the biggest problems in society. I would say that, if you are intoxicated and causing problems to society, it shouldn't matter too much what caused the intoxication. Drunks should surely be equally responsible for THEIR being pissed, as a "druggie" is for being stoned.

why is it that quite a few people say druggies are stoners when we are talking about people bein addicted to drugs its like heroin smack stuff like that so the correct term would be out my face or summit like that not oooooh im stoned lets go rob someone you will hardly ever hear about someone dying from smoking too much pot or someone robbing somewhere because they were stoned and why because smoking dope makes you think there is no way im getting up to get something to eat even tho they have the munchies not lets go and rob someone for some money

[Gleber2]

i thought that the point of methadone is to ween them off it thats wat the docters should be doing since you obviouly havent had a drug problem so you wouldnt know what its like going cold turkey and neither do i but i have herd from a few ex drug addicts who have and couldnt make it because its really hard i think the methadone is really good bt not if you are giving them just as much all the time they should be weening them off it

Methadon is more addictive than heroin and is a lot harder to give up when hooked. The withdrawal is considerabley worse. This approach is an absolute waste of time.
Take the addict off illegal drugs and give them legal ones that are worse is our government logic and the problem gets worse and worse. Prescribe pure heroin to the addicts and most of the problems vanish at a very low cost to the NHS. Give him his daily fix and he has no need to commit crimes to get the cash.

[EDDIE]

fantoosh
My opinion of a druggy is they are addicted to the hard stuff and need a lot of money to fund the habit to which they cant control it thats why they commit crime to fund it.
I dont see a druggy as a criminal because they cant control there habit or themselves because the druggs has taken over them its bit like smoking any smoker Knows how hard it it is to stop.
Problem with all the modern society now is there not helping them properly for me i think the best way to deal with a druggy is not to punish them buy sending them to prison because you could probaly get drugs easier inside than out but to remove them from society and force them into drug rehab in a controlled environment so they have no choice but to give up and keep them in that environment for a long period of time so to give them a greater chance of stopping for good.And people that supply and sell druggs should get the book thrown at them good and proper and even maybey inject some drugs into them and see how they like having all the problems a druggy has

[padfoot]

Methadon is more addictive than heroin and is a lot harder to give up when hooked. The withdrawal is considerabley worse. This approach is an absolute waste of time.
Take the addict off illegal drugs and give them legal ones that are worse is our government logic and the problem gets worse and worse. Prescribe pure heroin to the addicts and most of the problems vanish at a very low cost to the NHS. Give him his daily fix and he has no need to commit crimes to get the cash.

seems a bit pointless then giving them methadone if its worse just because it legal

[squidge]

I go back to what i said in other posts - Some people are strong and some arent. Some people are driven to succeed and others cant. A good and healthy society is surely one where the strong help the weak? Where successfully ovecoming adversity should lead to a "hey guys look what you can achieve if you try" rather than a "pull yourself together get a life you waster".

The attitude of Im better stronger and wiser than you so you should just pull your socks up is the sort of attitude that is to blame for the stigma attached to mental health problems. The pull yourself together attitude is of no use to anyone struggling through alcoholism , addiction or mental health problems. Its not helpful and just leaves people feeling worse than ever. Quite often drug and alcoholism go hand in hand with mental health issues - either as cause or effect. The idea should surely be that people who have survived a terrible childhood, a dreadful tragedy, an awful marriage breakdown, a dreadful bereavement, a traumatic stint in whatever conflict they have fought in should share with compassion and understanding those who are struggling to survive. Fortunately some people do indeed that, CRUISE, AA, SANDS and many other organisations take volunteers with those experiences and help others less able to weather the blows.

We are none of us perfect just some of us are stronger or luckier than others. Thats all