A question for Americans everywhere...

[gleeber]

Hi KW14, I wondered, seeing as you find the Suadis so hospitible, do women have equal rights over there?

[Anonymous]

Gleeber, nowhere did I say that the society was perfect (far from it), all I said was that people are VERY hospitable.
As for equal rights for women, the answer is NO, just as equal rights for religions does not happen, and there is positive racial discrimination.
By the way do women have equal rihgts in the UK

[gleeber]

Sounds like a rather oppressive system KW14; why do you support it with your expertise and labour? Perhaps you think its ok for a man to expect a woman to move her seat so as he can show us how wonderfully hospitible he really is.

[Anonymous]

I see Gleeber, so one persons experience on a flight (which you heard 3rd hand) is the yardstick by which you jusge hositality is it - seems to me rather narrow minded.

My reasons for working here anre many and varied and I am comfortable with them.

Of course I do not agree with everything that happens in this country, but I dont agree with a lot of things.

Notice you never answered the question about equal rights for women in the UK, but that's nothing knew with you Gleeber, avoiding the issue,changing the subject and trying to score petty points.

[golach]

Actually just read your post agian Golach - hope you aint calling me a LIAR mate

I never suggested you were a liar kw14ultra, just that your spin about the "wonderful & so hospitable " Saudi's made you eligable to be a member of the lying bedfellows Bush & Blair Liars Inc. The nonsense that comes from those two is as unbelievable as me ever meeting a hospitable Saudi.
Any way we seem to have detracted from the original topic "What do Yanks think of Bush?"
Golach
p.s. Gleeber Im with you

[gleeber]

Ill not bother to answer your accusations about my motives for posting here KW14 because im pretty sure you find the regime you work for as abhorrent as I do.
To use your own quote I think ypu paint a shortbread tin view to colour the severity of the regime you serve. Im sure the Saudis are friendly and hospitable but below the surface theres a collection of force fed cultural and religious differences that go directly against my own world view. Thats one of the reasons for the original content of this thread.
The fact that I dislike any form of discrimination maybe makes me just like them and the funny thing is I can be hospitipal too.

[gleeber]

Right Golach we'll get him next time hhe has a dram in.

Wouldnt it be wonderful if everyone in the world was just like us? What a pefect world it would be lol

[squidge]

Notice you never answered the question about equal rights for women in the UK,

He didnt Kw but guess what ... I am going to ...now dont all roll your eyes... all you men cant be expected to answer this
What was the original question?

By the way do women have equal rights in the UK

There are two answers to this - yes we have equal rights and no we dont.

Legally we have equal rights... It is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sex. There is no grey area here that is what the law says. Women therefore have equal rights within law as men. They cannot be paid less, be denied opportunities or treated differently than their male counterparts.

So why do we still not feel as if we have equal rights. Society still has some way to catch up with the law. Some men still feel that women should "know their place". There is still a tendency by some men to try to get out of their legal obligations by placing women in an inferior and subjugated role. Some men feel threatened by powerful, educated and assertive women. This is simply because society has not kept up with the law and it is a reflection of the length of time it takes for attitudes to change. Time will make a difference. My boys and the children of women my age and younger will not have the attitude that women "have their place". They are being brought up to see women as equals and therefore the distance between the law and the practice will reduce.

The question about equal rights was however asked in he context of the UK compared to Saudi Arabia. I dont think this is a question so much of equal rights as of freedoms. The freedom for a woman to choose to live how she wants to live.

Kw14 we have those freedoms as women living in a free and open society here in the UK.
Because we have those freedoms the social changes which i mentioned above will happen. Introduce an Equal Opportunities law in Saudi and women would still not be free to choose and therefore changes would neverhappen.

The whole subject is complicated and varies across the different areas of society. The bottom line is that here in the UK we have the framework in place which allows equality of opportunity across the sexes - they dont even begin to have that in Saudi.

[golach]

More power till your elbow squidge I agree whole heartedly with your comments posted above.
I am not anti Arab nor pro any left wing faction. BUT and there always is a but.
kw14ultra and his love of the Saudi regime leaves me noplussed, give me an exampile of the Saudi "Hospitality" and I will change my views I am very Liberal at heart though I did not vote for them.
All responses I have had from "Brits" living in "Compounds" is that the Saudi's have not wish to be incontact with any non Saudi and if a non Saudi does not conform then" Hell mend them",
I was in Saudi a long time ago myself and the corruption that goes on there is unbelieveable.
The corruption comes down from the so called "Royal Family" of Saudi Arabia who in my opinion are a bunch of despots but I am a small voice in the Wilderness
there I have ot that off my chest
Golach

[Anonymous]

Nowhere did I say I loved the Saudi regime, the fact that the Brits you know who live in their compounds do not wish to talk meet or socialize with locals says more about them than the locals. These will be the same individuals who tell you they make "megabucks" but need to supplement their income by making home made alcohol and selling it, these are the same individuals who see no problem with breaking laws in someone else's country but are the first to complain when those immigrants dont conform in the UK.
My original point was that people are friendly and hospitable - it has been turned into me being a supported of the regime, get a grip. Just because people do not fit in with your paradigm of being hospitable and friendy you have a go at me - I suggest you are bigots, fuelled by ignorance.
You dont know what hospitality is Golach Being asked to share their food, being invited to have a cup of tea, not allowing you to pay for food etc when dining out, being made to feel welcome, asking about the health of your family, takinig an interest in your well being ......... I could go on and on.These may seem like small things, but the general feeling of openness and friendship displayed by those I have come into contact with is not that perceived in the minds of those of you who appear to disagree with me.
Squidge, of course I was being flippant about my question relating to Womens rights, I just find it amusing that men seemed to be prepared to shout about the rights of women in a foreign country but not their own. To be honest the rights of women in Saudi are much as the rights of men, apart from the fact that they are not allowed to drive.(for those who wish to disagree with my point here -I will spell it out, rights for all individuals are limited whether men or women, I do NOT agree with this but that is the way it is).
As for all those who complain whilst working here - let me ask you what does that make them? Of course they are normal

[rachelle]

Sandstorms in Iraq

I am sure that all of you heard about the sandstorm in Iraq in May (the worst in 100 years, some say) and the drenching rain that followed the next day. "Our" troops were bogged down and couldn't move effectively.

Arab TV claimed that this was God's judgment on U.S. actions. The media was already wondering if the troops were in a "quagmire" and dire predictions of gloom &doom came from some media.

What they didn't report was that the day after the weather had cleared, the Marine group that was mired the worst looked out at the plain they were just about to cross. What did they see? Hundreds if not thousands of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines had been uncovered by the wind, and then washed off by the rain.

If they had proceeded as planned, many lives would have undoubtedly been lost. As it was, they simply drove around them and let the demolition teams destroy them.

Thank God, for protecting our young men!

One person once asked George Washington if he thought God was on his side. His reply is reported to be, "It is not that God should be on our side, but that we be on His."

IN GOD WE TRUST...

[rachelle]

With all the sadness and trauma going on in the world at the moment, it is
worth reflecting on the death of a very important person
which went unnoticed.

Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at
the age of 93.

The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into his coffin.
They put his left leg in. and then the trouble began...............................

[rachelle]

Powell Quote

When in Europe at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the heads of state if plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough land to bury those that did not return."

It became rather quiet in the room.................

[gleeber]

Our Father
Who art rather
selective with thine deeds
Hallowed be thy name
You shoulder no blame
For meeting the Iraqis needs
Thy will be done
It is no fun
When you turn your back on the rest
On earth as in heaven
You allow your coven
To think they are the best
Thy kingdom come
With bomb and gun
And earthquake storms and pain
Give us this day our daily bread
To give us the strength to bury our dead
And overcome your love and strain
Forever and ever
I will never
Allow you to be
Responsible for me

[Anonymous]

[marion]

Lets hope that when it is proved there were no WOMD the U.K. will think twice about getting involved with the Yanks again.

The Yanks saved your tail during WW2.

[Anonymous]

wasn't it just John Wayne? were there others involved?

[Anonymous]

As they NEVER tire of telling us Marion!

[marion]

As they NEVER tire of telling us Marion!

I take that to mean you wish we had never been there. I served 36 months fighting part of the enemy (Japan) in the Pacific theate. Many of my friends died fighting the other part of the enemy in Europe. I guess I join with you and with many of my fellow countrymen by declaring that I don't ever want my country to help ingrates ever again.

Wasn't it just John Wayne? were there others involved?

John Wayne never served his country in the military during WW2. If you read true history instead of history written by revisionists, you would know the truth.

[Anonymous]

Go Marion, Go Marion, Go Marion......

Could it be that we have the REAL John Wayne here

ThAnk you for correcting me on my revisionist history, I'll need to go back and tell them John Wayne never won WW2



From the Halls of Montezuma
To the Shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title of
United States Marine.
Our flag's unfurled to every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have fought in every clime and place
Where we could take a gun;
In the snow of far off northern lands
And in sunny tropic scenes;
You will find us always on the job --
United States Marines.
Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve;
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes,
They will find the streets are guarded by
United States Marines!!! OOOHrah.''