A question for Americans everywhere...

Anonymous · 22-Jun-03, 18:03

I never said I was ungrateful. However you did not win the war alone.

**gleeber** · 22-Jun-03, 18:06

The irony of our latest serial posters flippancy seems lost for the moment with his ever increasing need to have the last word.

Marion
It took 2 years and 3 months before the USA entered WW2 and then only after a dasterdly attack by the Japenese at Pearl Harbour.
The British people had survived blitz bombings, and battles on land sea and air in the preceding 2years and 3 months and although it was a welcome relief when the USA entered WW2 it can never be said that without them we would have lost.
It was a collective effort to defeat evil and if any questions should be asked it would be why did it take Pearl Harbour for the American government to fight the tyrany of National Socialism?

Anonymous · 22-Jun-03, 19:10

at least there was proof that they ha weapons of mass destruction that time

Sorry that me being flippant and trying to get the last word agian - although I doubt very much if it will be the last word.
Who cares Gleeber? Do you think you will get your answer from Marion? I am just glad they did......think of how any movies it spawned, I mean think of the relief those poor native American Indians must have felt when they got a temporary stay of execution from being the bad guys, Land of the Free, Home of the Brave......indeed.

**squidge** · 22-Jun-03, 21:55

I really dont like the way this is going folks.

A little decorum wouldnt be amiss. Marion deserves some respect here i think and i would like to see him get it. We may not agree with the politics within the USA, we may not agree with the actions the USA takes on various fronts, we may also feel they left it a little too long to assist during the second world war but assist the did and marion is right to point that out

Marion says

I served 36 months fighting part of the enemy (Japan) in the Pacific theate. Many of my friends died fighting the other part of the enemy in Europe.

For Marion and ex soldiers like him very often the pain of loss does not go away. Those 36 months must be as clear to him as to the many british and american soldiers who fought in Europe.You would all do well to remember how difficult it is to convey meaning in a short message and that the things we type in here can be occasionally taken as personal attacks or as belittling the achievements of people like Marion. Despite all the pompous mutterings of kw1 gleeber and luckyone you lot were not around and cannot share Marions memories, pain or his pride and i think you would all do well to change your tone.

**marion** · 22-Jun-03, 21:59

Originally Posted by luckyone

I never said I was ungrateful. However you did not win the war alone.

You are correct. We had the help of your countrymen whom we are thankful and much appreciated. Again, they helped in this latest endeavor.

**gleeber** · 22-Jun-03, 22:21

Originally Posted by marion

Originally Posted by deacon blue

Lets hope that when it is proved there were no WOMD the U.K. will think twice about getting involved with the Yanks again.

The Yanks saved your tail during WW2.

Squidge, pompous perhaps, disrespectful........never

**squidge** · 22-Jun-03, 22:29

Originally Posted by gleeber

Originally Posted by marion

Originally Posted by deacon blue

Lets hope that when it is proved there were no WOMD the U.K. will think twice about getting involved with the Yanks again.

The Yanks saved your tail during WW2.

Squidge, pompous perhaps, disrespectful........never

My apologies then gleeber..........................

**sassylass** · 24-Jun-03, 00:59

ahem, back to the original question.

Yes, I am embarrassed for Bush, he is ineloquent. I was embarrassed for Clinton as well, he was a bare faced liar. I don't pretend to understand politics, therefore my logic is very simplistic. I always try to vote for the honest man. The trouble is this: I think politicians are selfserving egomaniacs. Politicians say whatever they think the public wants to hear, they say whatever it takes to win votes, and the minute they get into office they do as they please. We try to choose the lesser of two evils.

The leader of any country is a figurehead, the face presented to the world, however leaders cannot be a true representation of all the people. They represent themselves.

Anonymous · 24-Jun-03, 04:54

You are correct. We had the help of your countrymen whom we are thankful and much appreciated. Again, they helped in this latest endeavor.

So there you have it non-revisionist history the USA with the help of others won WW2

With every respect Marion it is this attitude that makes the USA a target for scorn.

Can I ask a personal question? Do you have any links to Caithness? Family or were you based at NAVCOMSTA?

**golach** · 24-Jun-03, 08:04

Sassylass
Well done very well put, in a language I understood and very concise and so true
Golach

Anonymous · 24-Jun-03, 08:08

aye but who do you vote for Sassy? Dont reckon there is an honest one amongst them.

**Drutt** · 24-Jun-03, 10:07

Originally Posted by kw14Ultra

So there you have it non-revisionist history the USA with the help of others won WW2

With every respect Marion it is this attitude that makes the USA a target for scorn.

Agree with you entirely there kw14.

jjc · 24-Jun-03, 11:32

Back in February Marion said that he did ‘not feel that any one owes the US a debt of gratitude’ and now we have ‘The Yanks saved your tail during WW2’. Is this just another example of beliefs on American supremacy polarising into two distinct camps with no room left for the middle ground???

I agree with KW14 on this one – Marion, this is the kind of statement that earns the US the ‘arrogant’ tag.

What do you want us to do? Turn a blind eye to whatever the American administration does simply because you believe we owe you some kind of eternal allegiance for a war in which both of my grandfathers fought? Would you rather that nobody questions the illegal imprisonment of minors by US forces at Camp ‘Iguana’? Would you rather that nobody shows any concern when there is now a possibility that the US military has bombed Syria (killing at least five Syrian border guards)? Would you rather that we turn a blind eye to the US administration forcing GM technology on the world without proper testing? The continued use of land mines in the face of overwhelming world condemnation? Shall I go on?????

I think that anybody who has been following the events in Iraq/Syria/Iran/Israel/Brussels(GM)/North Korea/Camps ‘X-Ray’ and ‘Iguana’ will have to agree that their opinions have become more intense (on both sides of the debate) over the past few months – I only hope that this doesn’t continue until opinions on the American administration spill over and become opinions of the American people. After all, the American population represents only 4% of the world population… will it really take an overwhelming majority voicing concern before somebody in the US government stops and notices they have been alienating the world???????

**marion** · 24-Jun-03, 20:08

In reply to several posters... Yes, it took the USA 2 yrs & 3 mos to enter WW2 & that was after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. USA citizens were a peaceful nation and did not want to go to war. After the attack, they awakened to the threat (as never before) and massed by the hundred thousands to aid our allied nations. I remember the suffering of the British people during that time and my heart went out to them. I am proud of my fellow countrymen who served with their British compatriots. Whether the USA was of help or not is a matter of conjecture with some of the posters. I recognize their right for opinion.

In response to the question "why did it take Pearl Harbor for the American government to fight the tyrany of National Socialism?" The answer is: the American people were not ready for war at that time, but when they were ready, they poured all their resources into the effort. Remember this, President Roosevelt (over the objections of some) did his best to get neccesary supplies shipped for the European conflict. We lost many ships, lives, etc., to acomplish this. I recognize that many British ships, lives, etc., were also lost.

As for the poor native American Indians, they joined in with their efforts. We had native American Navaho nation who trained as Code Talkers for communications. Their code language was never broken and they made a great difference in our Pacific War. They are finally being recognized for their efforts in winning the Pacific war. There were also Native American Commanche Code Talkers who gave their support during the European War.

Regards "the Yanks saved your tails during WW2" was a poor choice of words on my part. I apologize. I should have replied "we joined in the fracas to help all our allies including the British." Just as we did in this latest fracas when we allied with the British against an Iraq government who subjected their citizens to horrendous suffering,. Many of their citizens wound up here in Tucson (plus many other major cities) where they sought refuge from tyrany. I was too old at 78 years to help, but younger generations picked up the slack..

In spite of "gleeber" not wanting to get involved with the Yanks again, I believe he is a minority and would be happy for any assist as his fore fathers received during WW1 & WW2 if the occasion occured.

KW14 Ultra... my quote "on your countrymen helping my countrymen in this latest endeavor" got his response "this attitude makes the USA a target for scorn." I don't understand his reasoning. I always believed our nations were in this together. In answer to his question, my links to Caithness was NAVCOMSTA. While there, I found the Scottish people very open and friendly. I never regretted my time there. In fact many years later I toured England & Scotland with my family to expose them to the friendly people there... in particular Thurso where I spent a lot of time.

JJC... as previously stated, I apologize for the words "the Yanks saved your tails during WW2." It does read arrogant. I responded with those words because I detected hostility against my country for getting involved. As for Iraq, Syria, Iran, Israel, North Korea, etc., school is still out and all free nations may be affected by events caused by these nations. Time will tell.

**gleeber** · 24-Jun-03, 20:55

[quote="marion"].

In spite of "gleeber" not wanting to get involved with the Yanks again, I believe he is a minority and would be happy for any assist as his fore fathers received during WW1 & WW2 if the occasion occured.

Your honours intact Marion, I plead for mine.

Anonymous · 25-Jun-03, 04:43

Marion, good response and post. It was not the section of the post which you quoted that would bae a target for scorn but in response to WW2 where it was stated you never did it alone you responded

We had the help of your countrymen whom we are thankful

the way it was written was that the USA took the lead and others helped - however I think your latest post has clarified your position, which I wholeheartedly agree with.