T In The Park 2008

[Blast!]

]Blast! is younger than I, yet his "credibility" hasn't been called into question. If you're going to have a go over something, be consistent.

Jeid, let it be known that I never said I ever had any credibility!

I agree wholehearted with Jeids last post though. TitP booked the Who decades past their best, RHCP are past their peak and Rage have headlines before.

Time for something new.

Thankfully, there are plenty of other festivals in Scotland where real bands get a chance to shine.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Belladrum was a total joke, the seedlings tent was draped with HIAL banners ( Highlands and Islands Artists and Labels ) !! You are right about the Go North application process and indeed the "benefits" of being involved. The Go North Dundee event held last month was a shambles, no promomotion / pr nor any follow through,nothing, I know that as an absolute fact. What absolutely infuriates me is the involvement of the public sector in the "music business", its public money behind Go North, HIAL etc etc and public money has been used to "incubate bands" ie sliders for gig travel, first bite at festivals etc. In my view there should be no role at all for them, music is subjective and is best left to market forces. Why should a bureaucrat spend our money and indeed decide / influence which bands ( from this area ) are worth supporting / endorsing ?? On what criteria do they make decisions ?

You are spot on with what you are saying in this thread, you also have the experience at first hand through your profession to offer a great deal of information. Maybe another thread should be opened up providing real advise / guidance for local bands

Many thanks for your input here !

Not sure I can add much to your post, rob, but you're right, it's pretty disappointing all round. Robert Hicks has a big hand in Belladrum, and, as a chap who has helped put the highlands on the map (so to speak) am surprised if what you say regards Belladrum is true. Though I don't doubt you, either.

Why should a bureaucrat spend our money and decide whom is worth supporting? On what criteria do they make decisions?

Well, from my own point of view, I have big, big reservations over allowing politicians and bureaucrats to interfere in creative industries, particularly Scottish music (of all kinds). Most countries are currently investing in supporting and exporting creative talent. Most of them are leaving Scotland trailing in their wake; if in any doubt, check out the increase in music industry income in countries seriously investing, such as Finland, Norway, Sweden and Canada. The key here is to get investment from the Scottish Executive. They're not nice, but needs must. We should all be playing it smart and persuade the Executive to give us some serious money like they do with all other industries via Scottish Enterprise. But, most importantly, we have to make sure the people in charge of giving it out know and understand fully the music industry, which, of course, they do not.

I doubt if much of my experience will be of any help or relevance, but I must admit if I was 16-years-old today I would probably think about gaining a real estate license than gigging with a local band.

So - who's handed in their T-Break/ GoNorth submissions, then? Anyone?

[Jeid]

So - who's handed in their T-Break/ GoNorth submissions, then? Anyone?

We're planning it...

[The Pepsi Challenge]

For next year?

[Jeid]

Nah, for this year biy. I'm just waiting on our mastered tracks to arrive

[theboysintheband]

We had planned to hand in new decent demos that we thought mite have been finished by now...but typically, their not. The other ones are pretty shan so not sure if we will or no. Probably wouldna hurt but then again the Go North one costs...

[WeeRob]

Belladrum was a total joke, the seedlings tent was draped with HIAL banners ( Highlands and Islands Artists and Labels ) !!

Surely they just bought advertising space the same way any other company / organisation can? Think the tent was actually produced in association with Hi-Arts anyway, so isn't it actually their right to have banners at their own event??

[Flyermonkey]

Well said ! the same logic applies to the so called Go North programme and also the seedlings tent at Belladrum. Last year there was one Highlands based band playing at the seedlings tent ( Theatre Fall ) this wasnt because there are no suitable bands in the highlands, more that established record companies use leverage to ensure that their bands appear first.Best band I saw there was the Wallbirds ( from Yorkshire !! ) Sergeant ( from Glenrothes ) currenlty signed to a major, staged ( and I mean staged ) a stage invasion at the behest and organstion of thier company.

Hi Rob, sorry to disagree with you but I was the stage manager on the Seedlings Stage at Belladrum - and at least half the bands were from Inverness or further North / West with the rest mainly (bar the great Wallbirds) from within Scotland.

Off the top of my head Highland bands included Lowtide Revelry (Inverness), Luva Anna (Skye or the islands?), Our Lunar Activites (Lewis), Theatre Fall (Inverness) and so on. Am sure that there were more but my memory isn't always the best after a festival.

The stage invasion by Sergeant wasn't 'staged' though their manager did encourage it and and came very close to getting a 'boot in e' bahs' from the sound engineer for the amount of drink that was spilt on the stage. I wasn't too chuffed either but the sound engineer was much better at making his point (and much larger) than me.

I have worked at various places and in various roles with Go North and HIAL over the years and I do think they do a lot of good. All the guys there are really enthusiastic, and do really believe in getting music from the Highlands out there into the world. I guess the pot is only so big and they have a fairly big remit to cover so not everyone will be happy with the results, but having seen their work first hand on various occasions they do make the most of their pot.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Hi Rob, sorry to disagree with you but I was the stage manager on the Seedlings Stage at Belladrum - and at least half the bands were from Inverness or further North / West with the rest mainly (bar the great Wallbirds) from within Scotland.

Off the top of my head Highland bands included Lowtide Revelry (Inverness), Luva Anna (Skye or the islands?), Our Lunar Activites (Lewis), Theatre Fall (Inverness) and so on. Am sure that there were more but my memory isn't always the best after a festival.

The stage invasion by Sergeant wasn't 'staged' though their manager did encourage it and and came very close to getting a 'boot in e' bahs' from the sound engineer for the amount of drink that was spilt on the stage. I wasn't too chuffed either but the sound engineer was much better at making his point (and much larger) than me.

I have worked at various places and in various roles with Go North and HIAL over the years and I do think they do a lot of good. All the guys there are really enthusiastic, and do really believe in getting music from the Highlands out there into the world. I guess the pot is only so big and they have a fairly big remit to cover so not everyone will be happy with the results, but having seen their work first hand on various occasions they do make the most of their pot.

Fair dos. But answer me this, then, please: do you think it is right for GoNorth to charge bands money to apply to appear at GoNorth on the understanding they might get Nothing in return?

[Flyermonkey]

Fair dos. But answer me this, then, please: do you think it is right for GoNorth to charge bands money to apply to appear at GoNorth on the understanding they might get Nothing in return?

It does seem a strange thing to do! But I don't know anything about it so shouldn't really comment.

[Flyermonkey]

Fair dos. But answer me this, then, please: do you think it is right for GoNorth to charge bands money to apply to appear at GoNorth on the understanding they might get Nothing in return?

So I am confused... according to the GoNorth 2008 website http://www.gonorth.biz/

Applying is easier than ever. You can apply free on line at this site. Simply attach a biog, picture and mp3s. You will be considered for all stages at goNORTH except the Sonic Bids stage. You will also be considered for Rockness. Remember, by applying you are giving us permission to use the info and tracks you send for promotional purposes (assuming you are offered a place at goNORTH or Rockness). Your track will also be considered for the sampler CD that goes out on the cover of MUSIC WEEK unless you tell us otherwise. Applications must be received by 28/03/08.

So, you only pay (in dollars) if you sign up via 'Sonic Bids' which appears to be some sort of American company offering 'matchmaking services' to bands and promoters. So, even if you do sign up via Sonicbids you do (in theory) get something back.

I should have checked this earlier as I did think it was against GoNorth's remit to make bands 'pay to play'.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Pay-to-play has hit the electronic age at last, eh? Last year, it was roughly $14.95 (about £9) to register. There's no way I'd pay an online company money to send music that can be done for free (a la MySpace). I can only imagine GoNorth have contacted Sonicbids, telling them they'll get loads of young bands signing up in exchange for a commission. Or, the Sonicbids people have put the hard sell on GoNorth, saying they'll take away any effort from selecting bands (except, that, they'll still have to listen to the bands, unless they let the site choose the bands who paid for the longest duration subscription.) Either way it's sad, destructive and immoral.

The Internet and MySpace should be the way ahead for an environmental, simple, and effort-free way to audition bands for any event. Or, with a fairly small bit of effort, bands could be given a rigid format to send in mp3, biog and pix or whatever they require. However, Sonicbids allows promoters to expend NO effort.

It's sad: bands can spend a few quid on registering and still have their music laughed at and tossed in both the office and cyber bins. Sadder yet, they will continue to receive hundreds of applications from young bands suckered into the whole thing.

Not for me.

[Flyermonkey]

Applying is easier than ever. You can apply free on line at this site. Simply attach a biog, picture and mp3s. You will be considered for all stages at goNORTH except the Sonic Bids stage.

From the goNorth website.

Its only if you want to play the Sonic Bids stage that you have to pay to enter for goNorth otherwise it is free to enter. I can't imagine that anyone would pay $9 as I assume that as in previous years there will be a good number of stages.

I would agree that Sonic Bids seems a waste of money, but neither goNorth or Sonic Bids are making anyone sign up or even particularly distracting from the goNorth application process.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Heard too many bad luck/ horror stories to make me change my opinion on it. If bands want to go ahead with it, fine. For me, though, their card has already been marked.

[rob murray]

Hi Rob, sorry to disagree with you but I was the stage manager on the Seedlings Stage at Belladrum - and at least half the bands were from Inverness or further North / West with the rest mainly (bar the great Wallbirds) from within Scotland.

Off the top of my head Highland bands included Lowtide Revelry (Inverness), Luva Anna (Skye or the islands?), Our Lunar Activites (Lewis), Theatre Fall (Inverness) and so on. Am sure that there were more but my memory isn't always the best after a festival.

The stage invasion by Sergeant wasn't 'staged' though their manager did encourage it and and came very close to getting a 'boot in e' bahs' from the sound engineer for the amount of drink that was spilt on the stage. I wasn't too chuffed either but the sound engineer was much better at making his point (and much larger) than me.

I have worked at various places and in various roles with Go North and HIAL over the years and I do think they do a lot of good. All the guys there are really enthusiastic, and do really believe in getting music from the Highlands out there into the world. I guess the pot is only so big and they have a fairly big remit to cover so not everyone will be happy with the results, but having seen their work first hand on various occasions they do make the most of their pot.

I guess what I am trying to say is why not have a truly highlands based tent ie Go North : Showcase for Northern bands. I disagree with you though at best 3 bands had highland connections ( luvva anna are from Dundee ) Figure 5 from Glasgow etc etc . I was there at the sergeant gig and stood behind some older guys there with the band, they definitely had thought it out in advance as I heard them speaking about it. Crackin band though, heard they have a big deal !

[Flyermonkey]

I guess what I am trying to say is why not have a truly highlands based tent ie Go North : Showcase for Northern bands. I disagree with you though at best 3 bands had highland connections ( luvva anna are from Dundee ) Figure 5 from Glasgow etc etc . I was there at the sergeant gig and stood behind some older guys there with the band, they definitely had thought it out in advance as I heard them speaking about it. Crackin band though, heard they have a big deal !

Fair enough, like I said my memory isn't the best after festivals! I can see what you are saying about goNorth, though their remit extends as far across as Aberdeen (where it started) and down to Dundee as well. There were 20 bands on over the two days, so I am not sure that there are enough bands, of a good enough standard, from Inverness and North to cover that many slots?

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I'm certain a lot of bands across the highlands would be quick to disagree with you.

[rob murray]

Fair enough, like I said my memory isn't the best after festivals! I can see what you are saying about goNorth, though their remit extends as far across as Aberdeen (where it started) and down to Dundee as well. There were 20 bands on over the two days, so I am not sure that there are enough bands, of a good enough standard, from Inverness and North to cover that many slots?

Yes and who defines the standard and how "qualified" are they ? If say 50% of slots ( 10 in total then over 2 days ) were reserved for Highland based bands then at least people would have a realistic chance of appearing and a real goal to strive for. After all, Belladrum is a Highland Festival and people buy tickets for the event itself, so what would it matter if the local bands were relatively unknown,( did anybody really know much about the bands on last yeasrs seedlings bill ) they could all get valuable exposure. How about Go rRal North or Go Far North, providing a genuine platform for highlands based bands because theyre out there and perhaps a real effort from Go North could act as an incentive.

Off the top of my head, without any research and knowing nothing about what is going on in the islands try this for local bands :

Shutter, The Side, The Now, Crimson Tide, Catching Ami, Astronot, The Microscopic Talents, Theatre Fall, Isacc Sutherland ( all have good original material, have toured and recorded to various levels )

Im sure there are more that I dont know about.

[The Pepsi Challenge]

I wouldn't kid myself about these festivals. Though they'd like you to think they are compassionate, understanding and doing their upmost to help young highlands bands (certainly they do their bit, and it is a bit), but like everyone else, they're business people whose primary aim is to make money.

How to decide on who is worthy? Easy, pay enough coinage and you'll get your half-hour no problem. Just ask The Low Miffs and PopUp.