No, I'm a sleeper agent for the haggis liberation front.Originally Posted by luskentyre
.Orger
Tell me, how is your freedom being eroded by being asked to prove who you are? Are you unable to?
By forcing folk with out passports or such forms of identification to obtain them
This must be about the only internal ferry in the EU with this idea In fact under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement you can travel freely on international ones without need for a passport (as I did on about 8-9 ferries last year)
Of course the UK is not in the agreement .....why ??
It seems to work very well in my experience
Beeeg Hugheeeeeeeeeeeeee
1K.Orger
No, I'm a sleeper agent for the haggis liberation front.
.Orger
And that erodes your freedom how exactly? By allowing you to travel more? Ah, I see...
.Orger
Well that only proves this is a good thing. The fewer Haggi we have being liberated the better! Pesky things...
1K.Orger
I never have nor intend to do anything illegal but I feel very strongly that our basic rights to privacy are being invaded at every turn. We have surveillance cameras everywhere, even in residential areas, very Orwellian, never in my years until now would such a thing have been contemplated. Biometric passports, photo ID, where does it all stop? The Micro-chipped human is next in Britain, it is happening in Mexico, it will happen here. Governments are taking too much control over our lives and god only knows how this is going to pan out for our children and grandchildren. Maybe I am just being paranoid about those tesco clubcards where they have a record of everything you purchase or sky tv knowing what you watch and when you watch it.
Last edited by TBH; 18-Jan-08 at 21:27.
.Orger
TBH - you're absolutely correct when you suggest there is more personal data recorded now than ever before. However, this is largely for commercial reasons e.g. your Tesco clubcard, junk mailing lists, spam etc.I never have nor intend to do anything illegal but I feel very strongly that our basic rights to privacy are being invaded at every turn. We have surveillance cameras everywhere, even in residential areas, very Orwellian, never in my years until now would such a thing have been contemplated. Biometric passports, photo ID, where does it all stop? The Micro-chipped human is next in Britain, it is happening in Mexico, it will happen here. Governments are taking too much control over our lives and god only knows how this is going to pan out for our children and grandchildren. Maybe I am just being paranoid about those tesco clubcards where they have a record of everything you purchase or sky tv knowing what you watch and when you watch it.
As for CCTV, I fully support it, even in residential areas it can be vital in providing evidence (or as a deterrent). Why else would people install their own CCTV outside their houses, other than for security reasons? As for surveillance, you don't honestly think that someone is on the end of each camera, watching you do you? The manpower involved in reviewing CCTV footage is extensive, and that's when looking for something specific in response to an incident.
People tend to focus on the negative all the time but they don't imagine how these initiative can be used to make us feel safer and able to have more freedom. Security isn't necessarily a bad word! Imagine someone acquired your credit card details and booked flights (or even a ferry trip...) with the card. How are they going to use those tickets without photo ID?
Yes it's a cliche to say "if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear" - but it's true. The last time I checked, being yourself wasn't a crime.
1K.Orger
My God! Of course! Luskentyre's solved the entire question of credit card fraud at a stroke! Photo id with every transaction!
Tell you what,L., why not speed things up at the checkout and make it easier for those CCTV cameras to ID you? All you need is a national database, and a bar-code tattooed on your forehead! In fact with that you don't even need the plastic card and photo ID!!! No confusion, ever again!
Not at the moment, no. And in 1984, Winston Smith was never guilty of just being himself. He was guilty of wanting things and thinking things the State didn't want. And who's to say that can't happen here in the future? We already recently started to prosecute people for Thought Crimes, just as Orwell foresaw. And the legal protections you've enjoyed all your life that prevent such things are being given away; the UK has now given up habeas corpus and you can now be tried in your absence by a European magistrate, without a jury. If found guilty you will be arrested and deported. The UK has never permitted trials in absentia because they're too easy to use as a tool of oppression.Yes it's a cliche to say "if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear" - but it's true. The last time I checked, being yourself wasn't a crime.
So what needs to be considered, before you give up your freedoms and protections willy-nilly to a corrupt bunch of wasters who now form the UK Regional Government (aka Westminster) is that actually, you're giving them up to an unelected and unaccountable elite Politburo in Brussels who form our real Government. And they have the power, literally, to lock you up and throw away the key just because they don't like you, should they feel so moved. Now, what stands between where we are now, and that thing happening? In principle, only the fact that you haven't been brought to their attention in the wrong way.......
Anyone else feel an Orwellian chill blowing? Do please say if you do.....
Last edited by j4bberw0ck; 20-Jan-08 at 11:55.
.Orger
Of course we are heading towards a future like orwell wrote about !!!
Its not just cctv, but also like others have said they know via supermakets where you shop, what you buy, how often and how much you spend on average. Top that with cash withdrawls from atm's, your mobile phone can be traced to where ever you are, your calls can be brought up in a flash to see who you called. Driving your car on motorway, they can plot your path, congestion charges show when and where you are at a given time. Your internet browsing habits are logged, you e mails may be read !! even watching sky tv can show what you watch and how often !
your doctor / dental records are available to the powers that be, how much you earn will be on record somewhere.
everything you do is being recorded on camera or logged, infringing your freedom or civil liberties? depends how you look at it, maybe not yet but its not far away !
If you lived in an area where there is a lot of cctv cameras, i reckon they could if they wanted show you from the minute you leave your house going to work, where you went in between and coming home at end of night, including cash withdrawls, mobile calls etc etc all can be brought into play very easily.
were doomed i tell ya doomed
1K.Orger
No need to go as far as Venus Jabber, in one of todays Scots newspapers a little snippet.
Drug swoop on isles ferry!
A ferry passenger has been charged over a £70k cocaine stash found by a sniffer dog on a ship leaving Skye for Harris. This is the largest class A drugs haul in the Western Isles.
A question? How did it get to Skye in the first place? Yes we need to be careful
Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more
1K.Orger
On a small boat - be it a fishing boat or a pleasure boat. But how would photo ID help detect drugs? It certainly wouldn't have stopped the London Tube bombings, and didn't stop the Madrid bombings. Is it that the sniffer dog would feel more confident, bless its wet and sensitive little nose, if it could check your piccie first?
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