White-Black Scots-African blues-gospel connection

[Jeemag_USA]

No, it doesn't matter about "The Star Spangled Banner" being British...or "Hail to the Chief", they're nice tunes anyway

You lost me there Fred ?

[fred]

You lost me there Fred ?

The music for Star Spangled Banner was an English music hall song and Hail to the Chief was nicked from a British opera.

[rob murray]

I imply only that the Highlanders were treated like slaves and replaced the emancipated negroes after the Civil War.
If you want to start an argument about the comparative bad treatment received by disparate groups of displaced people in the US of A, then I suggest you start another thread in the General section where music is not the subject. The observations I made were relative to the musical questions not the social conditions under which both the negros and the Scots/Irish had to live.

I am not arguing my friend, I am correcting you, your opening statment, as repeated above is factually and historically in correct. On your second point to open anothe rthread : The history of the Gael is recorded in songs and poems ie the "music" is grounded in the economic and social context of the Gael and their experiences as expressed through words / music, ditto what is populary known as "blues". Music is derived, shaped and influenced by factors that impact upon societal elements...( social conditions ) I think you would agree here, wouldnt you !! Hence logically you have to be wrong. Remember...I am not arguing, I am merely correcting you.

[WeeRob]

If these two pensioners can stop "correcting" each other then we can talk about music...........

Good to hear you're passionate about black music Pepsi! I had this all dreamt up years ago after hearing a recording of the Back Free Church on Lewis 'lining out'. Sounds similar to a lot of Lomax's recordings. Though, it has to be stated, the black churches tried to bring themselves in line with 'white' churches in the 30s - 40s by introducing hymnsheets: hence why lining out is only rarely practiced in black churches these days. Put on a gospel channel on the TV - doesn't sound the same does it?

But you can't link lining out to the whole spectrum of black music - you have to take into consideration the disperate other influences, the songsters, the borrowed folk traditions from other nations. Jazz originates in New Orleans, a French speaking city - not much Scottish influence there!

There was a TV programme on this not long ago. One old black singer heard the gaelic choir and was asked his thoughts......

"Makes me wanna get on up and holla!"


PS If we're talking african american / Scottish relations then didn't we invent the KKK????? Food for thought!

[canuck]

And it was in American Scottish Churches where the movement began to abolish slavery.

[Aaldtimer]

"PS If we're talking african american / Scottish relations then didn't we invent the KKK????? Food for thought!"
No Weerob, we didn't. They, in their perversity, took a Scottish symbol (the fiery cross) and used it to their own ends.
They may have been Scottish, indeed a lot of slave owners were, but I don't think this was an "invention". This was a bunch of bigots looking after their own interests.

[WeeRob]

"PS If we're talking african american / Scottish relations then didn't we invent the KKK????? Food for thought!"
No Weerob, we didn't. They, in their perversity, took a Scottish symbol (the fiery cross) and used it to their own ends.
They may have been Scottish, indeed a lot of slave owners were, but I don't think this was an "invention". This was a bunch of bigots looking after their own interests.

Well, there is a lot of debate about the Scots role in the KKK. From the article Pepsi referred to : "Although the Enlightenment, especially Francis Hutcheson’s A System of Moral Philosophy, inspired the abolitionists in both Britain and America, Scotland’s darker role in the slave trade is also well known. Scots were influential in founding the Ku Klux Klan, including the traditional Scottish symbol of the burning cross and the KKK’s oath ceremony, which originated from a Highland custom."

See also : http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=723412003 An article by a Scottish historian

Though perhaps the last word should be had by Willie Ruff, who kicked this thread off to begin with: "There will be Scots who are uncomfortable with the relationship and the involvement in the slave trade. But the Scots are like anyone, and there were many who were abolitionists and who set up schools for black children after emancipation."

[The Pepsi Challenge]

Continuing the blues theme, for those looking for blues that's a little... well... real (in the true sense of the word), you might want to take a look at what Fat Possum - a label from Oxford, Mississippi - are doing. A few years ago I spoke with Matthew Johnson who runs the label. As he said to me, and indeed in this fantastic, gripping feature written in The Observer (link below), fleshing out what is left of authentic old-school blues is a bit like squeezing out what's left inside the toothpaste packet. Anyone with a genuine interest in the blues ought to read this well-written piece.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/s...083277,00.html