Anyone interested in reading up further on the subject might want to check this thread on Footstompin.
http://www.footstompin.com/public/forum?threadid=28838
There's been many a discussion surrounding the Blues and its origins: everyone has their own idea of how and where it came about. So let me open a can of worms. Willie Ruff, the musicologist and French horn player from Alabama, studied the roots of blues and gospel in the Hebrides a few years back. For me, his findings relate to my own personal feelings about the Blues. So please take the time to read this piece: http://heritage.scotsman.com/traditi...m?id=609532005
To think that blues, rap, bebop, tap, jazz, ragtime, funk and beyond, all might have originated in the Western Highlands. Now that's food for thought.
Anyone interested in reading up further on the subject might want to check this thread on Footstompin.
http://www.footstompin.com/public/forum?threadid=28838
i thought blues originated from early black slave "chain gangs"
they would sing their woes together in the fileds or wherever they were being forced to work. it was expression of their feelings but also a mechanism to show that they were united. it also acted as a small warning to the wardens and masters that is pushed to far you deal with all, not one.
well thats what i was "taught"
but true there are many many origins. maybe there all right. small slices in the same pie.
G2 makes a similar point. But what we are discussing is structure or musical form ie rythmn and melodic structure. Traditional Scottish music is centred around the three chord trick or i iv v (with, where required, the related minors ) as is blues in its basic format ie i iv v. ( G2 's point ) But this is just structure, music has to be seen and interpreted within a social economic context / wider context. Put simply, afro american slaves / afro americans post slavery, used a "familar" music structure, but one which was unknown to them in their home countries and hence had to be adopted and modifed ( primarily in subtle rythmic changes ) from their white masters. The lyrical content and feel however of black blues, what makes it definitley totally unique is derived from shared experiences, hence making the "familiar" there own ! However it could also be argued that trad scottish music ( lyrical content ) is based on personal hardships as derived from lsoing land and identity. Only difference is some scots did very well in the US whilst no afro americans did to the same extent.
This is the best crack I bhave had on this site, excellent stuff, well done to all !!
Most of the highlanders who moved to America were indentured servants who had to work for seven years to pay their passage etc. After the civil war the black workers had to be paid whereas the Celtic newcomers did not. The blacks learned the 6/8 lament and four four march from the new slaves who replaced them.
In the image of God? You must be joking!
John I would take issue here, post 1865 freed slaves enjoyed parity of economic, legal and social rights ? Black workers had to be paid !! lol loll lol. Absolutely not, ever heard of the terms Jim Crow and Sharecroppers, southern afro americans denied the right to even register to vote and in economic terms ( sharecopper ) the term to use is "serf". Defy the man and people became "strange fruit" eh !! The origins of the KKK ( imagery etc ) came from scots, scots populated the carolina's and south c17th century and beyond, the majority of carolina scots actually fought for George 111 in the war of independence, the irony is that most of the scots were land owners who left after the 45. ( Flora Macdonald of the skye boat song / prince charlie fame, lost her US estates after her husband fought for the crown.No afro american ever owned estates !! ) Yes ordinary scottish serfs ( clansmen ) suffered badly ( primarily in scotland ) but not in a million years can the lot of the scots ( indentured or not ) be compared to the suffering endured by afro americans
Rob I suggest you have a read of Born Fighting: How the Scots Irish Shaped America...........it paints a slghtly different picture.
'Cause if my eyes don't deceive me,
There's something going wrong around here
I dont know where you are comming from, please give me the basic arguement I would welcome it, however try these
http://www.1718migration.org.uk/s_whyTheyLeft.asp
why people left scotland
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/world/victorian_west.htm
what scots expereinced in the Victorian era “wild west”
http://www.saorsamedia.com/shop/HSTeachingMaterials.pdf
Expereinces of Scottish highland immigrants in north americas
You will find that on balance, scots did well as immigrants in the US
I've no doubt it did but I think what most people think of as "The Blues" took off in the depression of the thirties with musicians travelling from city to city looking for work. All the aspects of blues certainly existed before that, in various places, as did the name but that's when it all came together and spread, before that I think it was just a form of country music. It's an urban music not rural, about the bars and clubs they played in and the freight trains they travelled on and the prisons they usually ended up in, distinct from the songs of the workers in the fields.
Your own words check " Most of the highlanders who moved to America were indentured servants who had to work for seven years to pay their passage etc. After the civil war the black workers had to be paid whereas the Celtic newcomers did not. The blacks learned the 6/8 lament and four four march from the new slaves who replaced them."
I would say that you clearly make and have made an implication. Read it again or re phrase what you originally meant to say, especially your statement ....
"After the civil war the black workers had to be paid whereas the Celtic newcomers did not".
So, former slaves were paid therefore their economic lot relative to unpaid celtic new commers was better, thats your implication !!!!
"The blacks learned the 6/8 lament and four four march from the new slaves who replaced them"
Here you end your implication by clearly implying that celtic newcommers were the new slaves
You are clearly using a negative relative arguement !!!
You are welcome. It is a very good read.
'Cause if my eyes don't deceive me,
There's something going wrong around here
I imply only that the Highlanders were treated like slaves and replaced the emancipated negroes after the Civil War.
If you want to start an argument about the comparative bad treatment received by disparate groups of displaced people in the US of A, then I suggest you start another thread in the General section where music is not the subject. The observations I made were relative to the musical questions not the social conditions under which both the negros and the Scots/Irish had to live.
In the image of God? You must be joking!
Listen to the band called "Baka Beyond" and see how well scottish folk and african music fit so beautifully together. For those of you who haven't heard of them before you may have heard of "Outback" a couple of the members from them formed Baka Beyond. Great music.
Personally I think its a bit silly for anyone to lay claim to any country being an origin of music. Its not really important where it came from, it came from humans and their fascination with rhythm.
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