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Thread: Bt Broadband...Sod Them, How About This Instead?

  1. #21
    Bonzo Guest

    Default

    Here's a funny thing related to this thread: anyone noticed the new building back of Castletown (on the Dunnet road, set back a bit, looks like a bungalow)? It's the land station for a new fibre-optic link cable thingy by FARICE for the Faeroes & Iceland, which will give high speed broadband telecomms access etc. etc. for those remote island communities.

    Now, that was orginally planned for building a few months ago at the back of Harland Road (on the Wick road) but local residents protested (thin end of the wedge, area zoned for housing, not commercial activities etc) and successfully got it shifted down to the back of the old mill.

    Note I said months: I was amazed at the speed with which the whole thing was walloped through from planning application to the prompt completion of the building, even with a relocation.

    I suppose the whole point is that where its for Faeroes/Iceland, and someone's batting in its favour, planning, cables, building, switching equipment, the whole lot can be done very quickly. Pity it can't happen for us.

    Also, maybe the Scottish Parliament should have been planned, built and installed by this FARICE crew.

    (No offence intended to Faeroes, Iceland or any of the guys involved in the project: I only think it's amazing what can be done if.....)

    Big Bonz

  2. #22
    Anonymous Guest

    Default

    Partan, I think you missed my Dad's point about ditching BT as an ISP. Its not just to do with the broadband issue that has caused this. Its simply the disgraceful way we have been treated by BT. They obviously feel they have the whole country sewn up and can treat people any way they like. Personally, I have never been treated as badly by anyone, never mind a business, and will take any opportunity given to give all my telecoms business to anyone other than BT. I dont really hear many good stories about BT and their ISP businesses. They are a private company that acts like a government department and I think they themselves have sealed their fate, I can only see BT going under completely or being re-nationalised. Oftel seem only able to write papers about it as opposed to actually doing anyting about it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Wick, Caithness
    Posts
    1,696

    Default

    Yes I am aware that some places of perhaps similar size may be getting Broadband from BT but there many factors that have to be considered and unfortunately it seems that we may not meet all the criteria to get the service until very late in the day. A range of other services such as TV stations that are not available here as companies apparently do not see the north of Scotland as likely to generate revenue from having it put in. If the companies were required to put in the service over a number of regions of the country by law then this might - just might mean we would all eventually get it. However the fact that there are several companies all competing means that no one of them can be compelled to put in the services.
    Here at Caithness.org our experiences with BT have not been good and it has caused us problems - behind us now as we no longer use the Internet services provided by that company. I never say never and would gladly get behind what ever company was moving to bring the services into the north of Scotland. It is almost impossible to guess at what might be passing us by in terms of businesses that may not come to the area due to lack of Broadband. But the contacts we do have suggest to us that they have located in certain other rural parts solely on the basis that Broadband was available or was coming into the selected area within a reasonable time. Even a commitment with a timetable that could be seen would be helpful. Is it one year, three years, never? We have tried to do our best to publicise the Broadband sign up site along with many others and the numbers have continued to grow.
    Even though some of those signing up may refuse the service when it is finally offered and the company needs to get firm orders there are probably others who will take the service once it is available. It is frustrating not to have any definitive timescale to work to.
    Even this web site takes a considerable amount of time to load and it could be much faster and mean we could probably add much more to our day in terms of productivity. How many times over is this repeated in existing businesses?
    We foresee other services on web sites if and when Broadband is on offer here. Having the ideas it is one ting but lacking the practical ability to put them into operation makes it frustrating to think that what we have talked about will happen in other areas before here. There are ways round this and one of them is the simple solution of doing some of it away from Caithness. There is no reason as the whole thing is developing why we could not out-source some of what we do to areas where Broadband is available. This is no idle threat and others seeing the possibilities for taking on the running of parts of our business and they aint in the UK. Cards on the table - -they are in India. Hey folks it’s the internet and if we cannot do it here everything has the potential to be done anywhere if the wires reach - The Broadband Wires. And before you ask I have no idea if they have Broadband - that is not the point here. The point is that unless we get ahead then the competition is going be on top of us far faster than at any time in history.
    We have to have the fastest and best communications available. For rural areas the Internet was to be at he great leveler allowing access to information and much more. But the potential for jobs may melt away if we do not have it at speeds. Just as in the past the places that got their industrial process speeded up were the winners and this revolution is little different. Whilst we may just be getting used to having the services they are perhaps already be the equivalent of the horse before cars were invented or the weavers before the new looms were automated doing the work hundreds of times faster. The call centre has come and some say already on its way out but in between many folk have jobs and have learnt some skills and the demand for PC's has been boosted. With Broadband if we are unlucky it will have come and gone without us getting the advantages however fleeting. Broadband itself may be superceded by yet another revolution unsuspected as yet but it will be of little comfort to rural areas in 10 years time to hear that something better has come in if they never had the benefits of a faster system in the first place. Indeed we may go into reverse and folk may give up on it and go and do something else - or have no choice but to be unemployed or move to another place. This is not extreme. It is already happening as the programme on yesterday showed where companies who had moved to rural areas were thinking of moving back to London to get the faster access.
    If you are one of those rubbing there head saying how can all this be so important there were some examples given such as a jigsaw manufacturer - one of the biggest in the world who makes jigsaws to order from pictures sent online. As the manger pointed out when someone send in a picture made up of a highly detailed aerial picture to be made into a jigsaw the file seems to take all day to download before he can make the jigsaw. All his other orders are then backed up waiting to download. He is losing business all the time. There are any number of examples.
    Well from the above you can guess that bill will be girning, moaning and cajoling anyone that will listen to get Broadband into the north, the islands and the whole of rural Scotland - its survival we are talking about - not just some service we can live without.
    Next.............................................. ............

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Caithness
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    Default

    Is this thread ballooning out of control?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2932806.stm

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    Default

    I recieved this e-mail from The Hydro, things are looking brighter

    BROADBAND ENQUIRY

    Thank you for your recent interest in our Broadband product.

    We are pleased to confirm your home or business is in an area we are able to connect to our Power Line Carrier Network.

    You are probably aware from recent press coverage that we are presently in the process of connecting Winchester and Stonehaven to our network, as part of our ongoing product piloting. We plan to connect our first customers in this area in late June/early July 2003.

    Subject to continuing positive feedback from customers taking part in our pilots, you will be able to find out about our wider roll out plan of our Power Line Carrier network in the future. As yet, we do not have any timescales for your area.

    We have registered your interest in our product and plan to contact you when we know we are coming to your area. For more information relating to our product specification, pricing, service options available and forthcoming towns being connected, please refer to our website - www.hydro.co.uk/broadband

    Using our website is the easiest way to keep up to date with developments relating to our broadband product and provides links to information relating other products and services that we offer.


    Scottish Hydro Electric-Broadband

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Wick, Caithness
    Posts
    1,696

    Default Lets Try It

    Well Done Gizmo. I have also signed up at the Hydro site and also contacted them to offer Caithness.org support to get sign-ups if there is any chance they will come to Caithness.
    more sign-ups now might help swing it so lets all join Gizmo if you have not already

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Wick, Caithness
    Posts
    1,696

    Default Reply From Hydro

    My latest enquiry to Hydro Broadband has received this reply -
    BROADBAND ENQUIRY

    Thank you for your recent interest in our Broadband product.

    We are pleased to confirm your home or business is in an area we are able to
    connect to our Power Line Carrier Network.

    You are probably aware from recent press coverage that we are presently in the
    process of connecting Winchester and Stonehaven to our network, as part of our
    ongoing product piloting. We plan to connect our first customers in this area
    inlate June/early July 2003.

    Subject to continuing positive feedback from customers taking part in our
    pilots, you will be able to find out about our wider roll out plan of our Power
    Line Carrier network in the future. As yet, we do not have any timescales for
    your area.

    We have registered your interest in our product and plan to contact you when we
    know we are coming to your area. For more information relating to our product
    specification, pricing, service options available and forthcoming towns being
    connected, please refer to our website.

    Using our website is the easiest way to keep up to date with developments
    relating to our broadband product and provides links to information relating
    other products and services that we offer.

    If more of us follow Gizmo to hydro we might set another ball rolling. Worth a try - at the end of the day the first one in with a decent service gets my business. anyone else with a positive reply or further information lets herar it here.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
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    Default

    Hydro Boadband is certainly the only chance we have of geting a broadband connection in the forseable future anyway, even with the Thurso exchange currently at 377 registrations BT have still not set a trigger level for it, and Wick currently only has 217 registrations, so it's more than likely that we will still be ignored for the next few years at least, only when the cost of upgrading the exchanges drastically reduces will BT pay us any attention.

    But the only way that we will convince The Hydro that we want their Broadband connection is if we let them know that we want it on a large scale, there has been a massive braodband campaign in the local papers lately, yet Wick still only has 217 registrations, Caithnesian apathy is a terrible disease that we must rid the community of as soon as possible if we dont want to be left behind in the Broadband age, surely there must be a jab available

    Giz

  9. #29
    jjc Guest

    Default

    Whilst passing through Inverness Airport this morning I noticed that Highlands & Islands Enterprise has placed an advert in the waiting lounge to boost awareness of the 'Broadband for Business' pages on their website (and who says advertising doesn't work).

    The address is http://www.hie.co.uk/broadband

    They even have pretty graphics:


    I'm sure that this has probably come up before on a different thread about Broadband, but just in case it hasn't...

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I've just spent the weekend in Thurso and tried to check my email/bank account/this message board several times using a dial-up connection... God, it's good to be back with my Broadband

  10. #30
    Tina Irving Guest

    Default Broadband

    Duly registered with Hydro Electric

  11. #31
    P Guest

    Default

    For Telephone Number 01847******on Exchange THURSO

    Sorry - broadband ADSL is not yet available in your area, but we are currently assessing demand.

    We need 500 people to register their interest in buying broadband ADSL at this exchange. If 500 people register then we will begin the process to upgrade the exchange.


    ____

    According to that - Thurso will be getting ADSL soon...and CASE say that they *may* do wick at the same time...hmmm

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Thurso Caithness
    Posts
    2,271

    Default

    so far the numbers stand at 452 keep signing up

  13. #33
    maurice Guest

    Default Hydro Broadband


    Hi Folks,
    I have had hydro broadband in Stonehaven for a few weeks now, Lets just say its not as fast as you have been reading!
    The download speed ranges from 80k to 700k (on a very good day) with an average of around 450Kbps. As I am not paying at the moment(free trial) i can't realy complane, but its certanly not 1Mbps as they quote!
    Keep the pressure on BT in your area, as bt released broadband in Stonhaven the same week as hydro did so there is hope.

  14. #34
    Anonymous Guest

    Default

    maurice, I think you'll find that the downloads you've been getting are limited by the site you are downloading from.

    I was recently down in bradford, taking advantage of a m8s 2mb line, and downloads on that varied from 6 or 7k per sec to well over a meg a second.

    To test the speed, best site to try is the microsoft games website, try downloading one of their big game demos (170 meg or so), as microsoft have the biggest online capacity bar none, you should get it pretty fast.

    Also, to see the speed difference in action, try pinging caithness.org from the command line and see how fast your connection really is.

    win9x/me:
    click start then run and type "command" in the box and hit ok, you'll get a command line window in which you should type "ping www.caithness.org"

    win xp:
    click start then run and type "cmd" in the box and hit ok, similar command line window opens, type "ping www.caithness.org"

    after the site is pinged 4 times you will see a summary sheet similar to this:

    Code:
    Pinging www.caithness.org [212.100.226.101] with 32 bytes of data:
    
    Reply from 212.100.226.101: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=54
    Reply from 212.100.226.101: bytes=32 time=92ms TTL=54
    Reply from 212.100.226.101: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=54
    Reply from 212.100.226.101: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=54
    
    Ping statistics for 212.100.226.101:
        Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
        Minimum = 50ms, Maximum = 92ms, Average = 60ms
    the final average is the time it takes to send a request to caithness.org and for the site to respond. The example above was on my 64k isdn connex. DSL connections should be about half what I get and modemers will get about 3-4 times the time delay.

    This may not sound like a great deal of time, 60milliseconds is not a really long time, but when you realise what is being delayed by that time it starts to make a bit more sense...

    You will hear website owners quoting hits all the time (we dont, you'll see why), 1 hit is actually 1 file request, eg this page (the post reply page) has about 30-35 files attached to the page, count up every image and every element that is not directly part of the page code. So that mean there were about 30-35 hits added to our counter when I visited this page. It also means that there were 30-35 file requests when i loaded this page. Your browser requests files in the order that they are presented to it within the html, so along with the actual download capacity of your connection you also have all these requests adding delays to the page loading, although these delays do not quite add up in a linear fashion, they do build up when your download capacity does not have the width to accept all the files at once.

    Surfing through websites (on a nice fast host like us) is a completely different experience on broadband, our photo galleries are a good example. While down in bradford, I had the strange experience of actually looking at caithness.org for news and photos of what was going on while I was away (usually I'm only looking for tech issues and never read any of it ) and I have to say that browsing through the galleries was a joy, virtually instant loading of all the pages and photos, much more enjoyable.

    I really feel sorry for those who are still using 56k modems, the whole internet must seem to be getting slower and slower as web sites upgrade their content to suit the phatter connections. We ourselves have held back on doing anything so outrageous as we know no one in Caithness, bar those of you looking in from the likes of Dounreay, has a broadband connection. We have people in the county ready to give us audio and video footage, and although this would be nice for our broadband visitors, the sizes of the downloads would completely remove any enjoyment from that type of content from our narrowband users. In anticipation of broadband finally coming to our area, we recently increased our website's capacity by over 300% so that we would be able to start handling files and downloads of the sizes required by audio/video.

    So from our point of view, anyone offering land based dsl, or even possibly this wi-fi balloon idea, better be wearing a steel gauntlet when they make their offer as we're waiting with sharpened teeth to take their whole arm.

    Just a quick addendum for those thinking about satellite broadband, the ping times are around 700-800 ms, more than 10 times slower than my isdn. This was shown by Colin when we attended the launch of the broadband for scotland campaign in inverness last year. How we laughed ?;o), the results were shown on their big projector screen for all to see. Even their satellite-broadband-test-subject had nothing good to say about it, how we laughed again ?;o)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    by the sea
    Posts
    2,432

    Default broadband and HIE

    Here's a little story of my recent contact (or lack of it!) with hie-broadband. Having been told by someone locally that Thurso and Wick getting Broadband wasn't going to help people on smaller local exchanges I emailed the address on the hie website - shown as b4b@hieonline.org on 26 Aug. No reply so sent again on 4 Sep. Still no reply so tried phoning number shown. Got someone who didn't know anything about Broadband but gave me number of someone else who might. Second person was more helpful but said it wasn't him and gave me number of third person. Finally contacted him and he apologised for lack of reply and said email address was out of date - I pointed out the webpage claimed to be recent update. He gave me new email address which I heard as info@hie-wide.net (his accent may not have helped here) - surprise - this bounced back as undelivereable. Left two messages on his voicemail (he seemed to be permanently out) asking for correct address - no reply. Checked again today and guess what, site has been corrected and address is actually info@hi-wide.net. The new Caithnessbroadband site looks much more helpful but I'm still hoping to get some info from hie. After that lot I'm not too optimistic but maybe if nothing else I can claim some influence getting their site corrected.

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