Transatlantic Collaboration

[Jeemag_USA]

For the last few weeks i have been working on a project. A young lad from Northern Ireland who is actually a DJ on Queens Radio in Belfast approached me and said he liked my sound after listening to my stuff on bebo and Myspace and asked me if I would be interested in applying my sound to one of his songs. His name is Calvin Jacob and I think he has good talent as far as song writing and singing goes. So I gave it my best shot and the end result is a track called 'Everytime' by Calvin Jacob and Midnight Moses (thats me :P). I would really appreiate any feedback from people, especially on sound levels and overall arrangment and sound/atmosphere etc ( I am big on atmosphere in my songs)

The track is top of the list here http://www.myspace.com/midnightmozes

you can listen to more of Calvin at http://www.myspace.com/calvinjacobmusicuk and http://www.bebo.com/CalvinJacob (at bebo you can hear his own original version of "everytime".

Thanks for listening.

[Deemac]

Jeemag,
My opinion:
Interesting intro, thought the string pad defuses the groove by being slightly late on the tempo. (too legato) The vocal entry is weak (though the pitching is good). I feel there is too much processing (reverb) and the vocal level should be higher in the mix (try a dry echo instead of reverb). I would also add a much punchier snare and kick over the groove (Kick on 1 and 3, snare on 2 and 4 - bring it in on the second verse onwards - this should lift the dynamic and sound more edgy). Possibly also a second harder bass line. The bottom and top end could be lifted on mastering to add more weight and sparkle!!

A good first stab overall. (just my penny's worth - you did ask!!)

[Jeemag_USA]

Thanks Deemac, was hoping you would answer, really appreciate it. The drums were the first thing put in to help me get the arrangement sorted out, I do think they are pretty stale but had no ideas yet as to what to put in their place. I had to do a lot of work on the vocal track as the copy he sent me was very weak so I have beefed it up a lot, and will consider your advice on dry echo instead of reverb to see what it sounds like. The intro yes, thats me, I like to be weird with stuff, a little bit of my trademark. Thanks a lot for the comments.

PS by string pad you mean the orchesrtral sound right?

PPS do you think there is too much reverb on everything or just the vocal?

Tanx

[Jeemag_USA]

I have another question, I am a bit of a numbnuts when it comes to terminology, all my skills are based on having a good listening ear and just trying stuff until it sounds right. I am unsure on how to create the 'dry echo'? In everything I am using I don't have any option like that. Is there a way to create it using certain effects i.e. delay, chorus, compression etc??

PS thanks to whoever fixed the spelling mistake in my title, I was wondering how I was going to sort that out, somebody is on the ball (bobinovich?)

[theboysintheband]

Dont change it too much! The Guy is lookin' for your sound! Go with what you think is good...thats what hes after,yea?

[Chobbersjnr]

hmmm yes aye

pretty much "what Deemac said"

to acheive the "dry echo" I would take a very short plate verb 80-100ms & put a pre delay of about 40-60ms on it & just play about with the balance (level) the verb channel & the dry vocal channel. it would dry it up a lot more & bring it out in the mix

[Bobinovich]

PS thanks to whoever fixed the spelling mistake in my title, I was wondering how I was going to sort that out, somebody is on the ball (bobinovich?)

Nope no me! I did listen to the track last night (and have done again just now through a better sound system to make sure) and felt it started off OK - building up to something, but then it just stopped and never quite reached the peak I felt it could have.

It's not a technical appraisal, and I bow to Deemac for his far more detailed interpretation, and it's still better than some of the pap hitting the charts these days, just needs a little je ne sais quoi.

[fred]

Just thought I'd mention a very useful little program I found, freeware of course, called midivianet

I'm using it on my home network and it works well, so does the midiyoke mentioned on the same page, also free.

Thought it would be useful for people collaborating on a musical project who are a long way apart, being able to try things out in realtime.

[Deemac]

Thanks Deemac, was hoping you would answer, really appreciate it. The drums were the first thing put in to help me get the arrangement sorted out, I do think they are pretty stale but had no ideas yet as to what to put in their place. I had to do a lot of work on the vocal track as the copy he sent me was very weak so I have beefed it up a lot, and will consider your advice on dry echo instead of reverb to see what it sounds like. The intro yes, thats me, I like to be weird with stuff, a little bit of my trademark. Thanks a lot for the comments.

PS by string pad you mean the orchesrtral sound right?

PPS do you think there is too much reverb on everything or just the vocal?

Tanx

PS1 - Yes, string Pad = Orchestral sound.

PS2 - Yes, too much overall reverb (it tends to muddy everything up) You could try a brighter reverb, maybe a plate!

I like your intro drums, i'd just add another kick & snare later, on top of what you already have.

[Deemac]

Another trick to beef/thicken up your vocals . . . .

. . . . is to copy them (probably only in the chorus) - either delay them (only by a few milliseconds) and/or pitch shift them (again by a very small amount) - this should simulate "double tracking" (ie. the same vocal sung twice).

Pan these two tracks hard left & right (again only in the chorus - as a spot effect)

PS: I've assumed you only had one vocal track to start with.

[Jeemag_USA]

Nope no me! I did listen to the track last night (and have done again just now through a better sound system to make sure) and felt it started off OK - building up to something, but then it just stopped and never quite reached the peak I felt it could have.

It's not a technical appraisal, and I bow to Deemac for his far more detailed interpretation, and it's still better than some of the pap hitting the charts these days, just needs a little je ne sais quoi.

Thanks bob, like to get views from all angles, and i am in agreemet with you and Deemac after listening to it a few more times, there is not enough dynamics in it, the drums need to fatten up or do something different in breaks between vocals and I am going to work on some of the overall effects tonight.

Deemac, do you have an setting figures for a plate reverb, unfortunatly my effect plugins just say insert 1, insert 2 etc, but I can adjust any of them to a particular setting?

[Jeemag_USA]

Another trick to beef/thicken up your vocals . . . .

. . . . is to copy them (probably only in the chorus) - either delay them (only by a few milliseconds) and/or pitch shift them (again by a very small amount) - this should simulate "double tracking" (ie. the same vocal sung twice).

Pan these two tracks hard left & right (again only in the chorus - as a spot effect)

PS: I've assumed you only had one vocal track to start with.

yes I just have the one vocal track but I can easily duplicate it. I will try doing something along those lines.

[Deemac]

Thanks bob, like to get views from all angles, and i am in agreemet with you and Deemac after listening to it a few more times, there is not enough dynamics in it, the drums need to fatten up or do something different in breaks between vocals and I am going to work on some of the overall effects tonight.

Deemac, do you have an setting figures for a plate reverb, unfortunatly my effect plugins just say insert 1, insert 2 etc, but I can adjust any of them to a particular setting?

Most reverbs come with a selection of types: Plate, Chamber, Hall, Room etc. A plate is a short bright reverb (best suited to vocals) so set your overall decay to short etc. Use your ears to judge.

Can you post a screen grab of your settings (use the "Alt" and "Print Scrn" keys at the same time to capture just that box, not the whole screen)

[Jeemag_USA]

Most reverbs come with a selection of types: Plate, Chamber, Hall, Room etc. A plate is a short bright reverb (best suited to vocals) so set your overall decay to short etc. Use your ears to judge.

Can you post a screen grab of your settings (use the "Alt" and "Print Scrn" keys at the same time to capture just that box, not the whole screen)

Yes I can do that, will do it when I get home tonight. Thanks

[Jeemag_USA]

Dee here is my reverb setting, thanks for taking a look!

[Deemac]

Dee here is my reverb setting, thanks for taking a look!

Mmmm, not familiar with this at all (are there no presets? - what do the top left & right arrows do?), however I would suggest: H Cut = 0, L Cut = 6, Del = 0, Size = 3, Diff = 2, Bass = 0, Cross (not too sure what this stands for) = 0, Dec = 2, Damp = 7, keep your sliders as they are. Your trying to get a nice bright short reverb (like tiled bathroom etc).

[Jeemag_USA]

Mmmm, not familiar with this at all (are there no presets? - what do the top left & right arrows do?), however I would suggest: H Cut = 0, L Cut = 6, Del = 0, Size = 3, Diff = 2, Bass = 0, Cross (not too sure what this stands for) = 0, Dec = 2, Damp = 7, keep your sliders as they are. Your trying to get a nice bright short reverb (like tiled bathroom etc).

This is a preset Deemac, the arrows at the top move you through the presets, they al look like this but obviously settings are in different positions, but I know where your coming from, it would be nice if they gave them names like Hall, small room etc instead of Insert 1, 2 etc.

Let me try those settings and see what it sounds like. I think Cross stands for crossfade not sure?

Another question - are you giving me those values as measure of 1 to 10 or according to the notches on the dials, I am assuming 1 thru 10 so when you say 7 I turn the dial 70% towards full?

[Jeemag_USA]

I just tried those settings and it sounds good, can't really tell too much of a difference though but it sounds good to me. By putting the dials where you said it change the image on the picture from a large round room with lots of panels to a small tall square room resembling a small toilet with a tall ceiling, pretty neat I thought, you coudl see the room change as you turned the dials, totally useless but good fun too watch and does give a good indicator what it will sound like if you imagine singing in that shape of a room what the acoustics will be like.

[Deemac]

This is a preset Deemac, the arrows at the top move you through the presets, they al look like this but obviously settings are in different positions, but I know where your coming from, it would be nice if they gave them names like Hall, small room etc instead of Insert 1, 2 etc.

Let me try those settings and see what it sounds like. I think Cross stands for crossfade not sure?

Another question - are you giving me those values as measure of 1 to 10 or according to the notches on the dials, I am assuming 1 thru 10 so when you say 7 I turn the dial 70% towards full?

Yes, as the dials were uncalibrated I assumed a scale of 1 to 10 (does it do 11?) As I said best to use your ears in the end, whatever does the job and makes the song/vocal work. Look forward to hearing your amended mix.

[Chobbersjnr]

I just tried those settings and it sounds good, can't really tell too much of a difference though but it sounds good to me. By putting the dials where you said it change the image on the picture from a large round room with lots of panels to a small tall square room resembling a small toilet with a tall ceiling, pretty neat I thought, you coudl see the room change as you turned the dials, totally useless but good fun too watch and does give a good indicator what it will sound like if you imagine singing in that shape of a room what the acoustics will be like.

there's occasions when a famous quote from someone I can't remember the name of "if you can hear it, there's to much"

I would suggest (contrary to Deemac) that you try a slight pre-delay to give the sound of double tracking & to a degree giving the voice the feeling of "being in a room" rather than a Cathedral