Well I'm going to say it.

[PhilR]

Once again, Fred, you have displayed a stunning lack of reality and total belief in tabloid journalism.

1. If you were in Iraq (which I am), you would know that the majority of insurgent attacks are coordinated by former members of the regime who have nothing to lose but try and incite civil war in the remote hope that they can restore their 'elite' status they held when Saddam was in power.
2. The attacks on the military were mainly to put pressure on domestic governments to pull their troops out and make the terrorist's job easier, as happened with the Spanish. These have now decreased, partly from stricter security from the military and partly because the countries still here are here for the long-term. Civilian attacks now aim to pitch Sunni against Shi'ia.
3. What do I think the future holds? I don't honestly know (but no doubt you've read a news article on what it will be). I've been here now since June 2003 and every week I see an increasing determination by the locals to get back on their feet and be a great nation again. Your lofty opinion that when we leave "it will be civil war and more carnage" is an over-simplified, ill-informed insult to the dedication, sacrifice and abilities of Iraqi and coalition personnel who are working together to make it happen.
4. You're obviously blissfully unaware that the Iraqis now have full autonomy over their oil. We are funding a huge rehabilitation of the infrastucture, and I am not niaive enough to think that we will not get preferential rates from this in the future, but that is a far cry from "having their oil"!

Before I'm accused of turning away from the realities of this situation, (as you predictably posted from a BBC report), I am a strong critic on how the US have handled themselves here, from large-scale corruption to poorly trained young soldiers who shoot anything that moves. However, against my better judgement I'll throw in a webpage of my own, issued today....http://www.almendhar.com/english_4855/news.aspx. Read that and let me know your thoughts on whether or not it was justified. My conscience is clear!

Stop believing everything you read, unplug the TV and find out what's happening in the real world Fred!!!

[scotsboy]

This link works.......I hope


http://www.almendhar.com/english_4855/news.aspx

[bigjjuk]

i have no answer either, i have been broought up in london and i know the ins and outs of the underground system it is not a great site. I agree there are a lot of suspicious people in London and violent people too. All it was was a mistake, lets face up to it. The guy was an ilegal immigrant and he ran because of that and thats what killed him. The police saw him running towards a train with a heavy coat on and they made the mistake of taking no chances. Its a big shame that the guy dies but i certainly dont blame the police, they saw a real risk and acted decisively for the better good. Oh and London is nothing like israel, huge difference there, they fighting for rights and land, we just have guys killing the british to prove that they can get into out country.

[fred]

Once again, Fred, you have displayed a stunning lack of reality and total belief in tabloid journalism.

I don't get all my information from the tabloids.

1. If you were in Iraq (which I am), you would know that the majority of insurgent attacks are coordinated by former members of the regime who have nothing to lose but try and incite civil war in the remote hope that they can restore their 'elite' status they held when Saddam was in power.

Ah you are in Iraq, that explains why you are in denial.

. You're obviously blissfully unaware that the Iraqis now have full autonomy over their oil. We are funding a huge rehabilitation of the infrastucture, and I am not niaive enough to think that we will not get preferential rates from this in the future, but that is a far cry from "having their oil"!

With 150,000 US troops in Iraq I am blissfully aware that they don't have full autonmy over anything, I don't think anyone is in any doubt about who is in control.

American and British oil firms were excluded from Iraq with the nationalisation of 1972 and just look at them now.

Before I'm accused of turning away from the realities of this situation, (as you predictably posted from a BBC report), I am a strong critic on how the US have handled themselves here, from large-scale corruption to poorly trained young soldiers who shoot anything that moves. However, against my better judgement I'll throw in a webpage of my own, issued today....http://www.almendhar.com/english_4855/news.aspx. Read that and let me know your thoughts on whether or not it was justified. My conscience is clear!

I look forward to the trial of Sadam with great interest, I have a feeling if the truth is allowed to be let out people will realise things arn't just as black and white as they have been led to believe.

[Rheghead]

I look forward to the trial of Sadam with great interest.

For once, fred and I are in agreement. Are we prepared to see Saddam proven not guilty on all charges? I am also interested see if this happens that the caithness.org's namby pambyists are prepared to defend the court's verdict. All hyperthetical of course...

[fred]

Yes, "the end justifies the means" tactics, the "it's OK killing innocent people so long as it's in a good cause" tactics.

You don't honestly think these bombings arn't as a direct result of our invasions if Iraq and Afghanistan do you?

I already answered this but as you took the trouble to ask me twice i will tell you again.
The war in iraq is NOT the reason there are suicide bombers. The reason there are suicide bombers is cos there are evil people who use whatever tools they can to sell their particular brand of hatred and they would do this without the war in iraq - they would simply use somethng else.

There is a man called Robert Pape who has done a lot of research into suicide bombers who does not agree with you.

Here is an excerpt from his book "The Logic of Suicide Terrorism".

"Al-Qaeda appears to have made a deliberate decision not to attack the United States in the short term. We know this not only from the pattern of their attacks but because we have an actual al-Qaeda planning document found by Norwegian intelligence. The document says that al-Qaeda should not try to attack the continent of the United States in the short term but instead should focus its energies on hitting America’s allies in order to try to split the coalition. What the document then goes on to do is analyze whether they should hit Britain, Poland, or Spain. It concludes that they should hit Spain just before the March 2004 elections because, and I am quoting almost verbatim: Spain could not withstand two, maximum three, blows before withdrawing from the coalition, and then others would fall like dominoes. That is exactly what happened. Six months after the document was produced, al-Qaeda attacked Spain in Madrid. That caused Spain to withdraw from the coalition. Others have followed. So al-Qaeda certainly has demonstrated the capacity to attack and in fact they have done over 15 suicide-terrorist attacks since 2002, more than all the years before 9/11 combined. Al-Qaeda is not weaker now. Al-Qaeda is stronger."

And here is an intervue with the author by the American Conservative magazine.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/t...718suicide.htm

.

[fred]

I look forward to the trial of Sadam with great interest.

For once, fred and I are in agreement. Are we prepared to see Saddam proven not guilty on all charges? I am also interested see if this happens that the caithness.org's namby pambyists are prepared to defend the court's verdict. All hyperthetical of course...

That he is a brutal ruthless cold blooded killer I have no doubt at all.

That America knew that when they helped him to power I also have no doubts. That America knew that when they supplied the poison gas he used I have no doubts either but then in the Iran Iraq war America was supplying both sides with chemical agents.

.

[Rheghead]

Have you any proof that America was supplying both sides with chemical weapons in the Iran/Iraq war?

Please note that I said weapons rather than agents. Please take note that the US did not supply Saddam with any conventional weapons at all.

[scotsboy]

Fred I think what PhilR was getting at was that he is in direct contact with people who live in Iraq, his experience comes from his interaction with them. You have no experience in this matter, and your information comes from material published by others.....and you select/filter what you want to believe. It may be unpalatable for you to consider that people in Iraq may actual welcome the invasion - but you cannot disregard the comments.

I live and work in an Islamic country, all my work colleagues are Muslims - none share your views on the terorist threat posed by radical Islamics.

[fred]

Stop believing everything you read, unplug the TV and find out what's happening in the real world Fred!!!

Are you saying that I shouldn't believe this:

Remarkable and accurate article. From our own painful daily experience, it must be stated that we, the average middle Iraqis, who are not this or that party or sect member or supporter, are completely hopeless amidst lost dreams of peace and security, progress, development, democracy, and self respect. Saddam did all the basic damage he could on the Iraqi's dignity, and the post-occupation armed and political forces finished up all the rest.

Arif Qaimaqchi, Baghdad, Iraq

or the article it refers to?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4692881.stm

First the "behind 9/11" excuse went out the window then the "weapons of mass destruction" excuse went out the window and now the "we did it for the people of Iraq" excuse is going out the window and soon all the excuses will be gone and all that will be left will be the reason, oil.

[PhilR]

Thanks Scotsboy...you beat me to the response!

I'm in Iraq, therefore I'm in denial? Hmm. No Fred, what I am doing is stating facts and informed opinion based on personal experience from a broad spectrum of sources over a long period of time. You should try this! I have no doubt the 1 guy in Baghdad whose report you chose to display is unhappy with how things are going, but you will find these in any scenario if you look hard enough.

I know many Iraqis from all class levels, and some of whom I consider as good friends. (I'm a born & bred Wicker, by the way). These are my sources of information, and I'd like nothing more than to sit them down in front of you and tell you exactly what the MAJORITY of the population think of your 'views'. I'm sure you'd find it enlightening.

I don't have to deny anything. I just state what is in front of my eyes every day!

[fred]

Thanks Scotsboy...you beat me to the response!

I'm in Iraq,...snip

Why?

[fred]

Fred I think what PhilR was getting at was that he is in direct contact with people who live in Iraq, his experience comes from his interaction with them. You have no experience in this matter, and your information comes from material published by others.....and you select/filter what you want to believe. It may be unpalatable for you to consider that people in Iraq may actual welcome the invasion - but you cannot disregard the comments.

Haven't you noticed yet that the news backs up what I say after I've said it, that the link I posted earlier was to a well respected BBC correspondent backing up what I said yesterday in an article published today?

Here's another article published by the BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4723339.stm

Does that sound familiar to you? Did you hear it somewhere before?

Now answer me this. When the will of the people in America changes, when it is conscripts being killed in Iraq not volunteers, will the American government continue to back the people of Iraq or will they hang them out to dry like they did the Vietnamese?

[Donnie]

Aberdeen Train Station this morning.

[fred]

Have you any proof that America was supplying both sides with chemical weapons in the Iran/Iraq war?

Please note that I said weapons rather than agents. Please take note that the US did not supply Saddam with any conventional weapons at all.

Some people say that it's because Saddam couldn't get any conventional weapons that he had to use chemical weapons.

A US Senate Committee enquiry into Gulf War Syndrome in 1994 reported that between 1985 and 1989, no records were available prior to 1985, American companies exported to Iraq, with US Department of Commerce license, among others the following substances:

* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.

"These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction," the Senate report stated.

You can read the entire Senate Report at http://www.gulfwarvets.com/arison/banking.htm

[PhilR]

OK, you win Fred. I give up. Obviously, being on the spot and in close touch with the people who are actually the subject of this discussion is no substitute for pig-headed ignorance.

You carry on in your little world where reality should never get in the way of a good story. Me? I'll look forward to my return to Wick in a couple of weeks, assuming of course that I can dodge the cluster bombs on the way to the airport and I can get all by barrels of crude oil through check-in!

Have a good life Fred....when you get one.

Cheerio!

Phil

[fred]

OK, you win Fred. I give up. Obviously, being on the spot and in close touch with the people who are actually the subject of this discussion is no substitute for pig-headed ignorance.

You carry on in your little world where reality should never get in the way of a good story. Me? I'll look forward to my return to Wick in a couple of weeks, assuming of course that I can dodge the cluster bombs on the way to the airport and I can get all by barrels of crude oil through check-in!

The latest news is that a fourth attempted suicide bomber has been arrested in Italy, a country with troops in Iraq and is saying that the motivation for the bombings was the British troops in Iraq not religion.

Meanwhile last night a young black student in Merseyside got an axe burried in his head while waiting for his bus.

Have a good life Fred....when you get one.

Cheerio!

Phil

Please take note that the name calling in this thread has been all in one direction.