Well I'm going to say it.

[fred]

My thoughts go out to the friends and family of the young man who was executed on the London Underground on Friday.

They must be thinking that with the lack of public and media outrage, that because our leader didn't rush infront of the cameras to feign sincerity with crefully planned pauses that his life must have been somehow less precious than the life of someone killed on the 7th of July.

It wasn't.

.

[kenimac1]

The person in question was wearing a heavy winter coat in summer. When challenged by the police, at the height of a security alert, he refused to respond and ran away. He had been living here for long enough to know that he had nothing to fear from the law. It was a tragic but wholly justifiable act in the circumstances.

[fred]

The person in question was wearing a heavy winter coat in summer. When challenged by the police, at the height of a security alert, he refused to respond and ran away. He had been living here for long enough to know that he had nothing to fear from the law. It was a tragic but wholly justifiable act in the circumstances.

Wearing a heavy coat is a capital offence now?

He wasn't challenged by the police, I've known a few policemen in my time and most of them are nice people who work hard to preserve the peace for little reward and no thanks. He was challenged by three people dressed like gang members and carrying automatic weapons, does that sound like the police to you?

Policemen would never hold a man on the floor while one of them pumped five bullets into the back of his head even if they knew for certain the man was guilty of a crime, those wern't policemen those were state hired thugs.

[Margaret M.]

It is truly sad and I do feel for his family and friends. I try not to speculate about situations when all I know about it comes from the media. However, seemingly this man was seen leaving one of the houses the police had under surveillance. Although wearing a thick coat is not a capital offence, it did make him look even more suspicious. I can only imagine the pressure the police are under at the moment.

those wern't policemen those were state hired thugs.

Had there been a bomb under that coat, they would be heroes. It is very easy for us to sit back and judge. The bottom line is they are human and will unfortunately make mistakes -- obviously a very tragic one here. In my opinion, the terrorists can take credit for the loss of this young man's life.

[fred]

It is truly sad and I do feel for his family and friends. I try not to speculate about situations when all I know about it comes from the media. However, seemingly this man was seen leaving one of the houses the police had under surveillance. Although wearing a thick coat is not a capital offence, it did make him look even more suspicious. I can only imagine the pressure the police are under at the moment.

I don't like to speculate either but according to his brother on the radio this morning he would have just got off his bus when the incident occured and after listening to the official reports immediately after the shooting, like "we did all we could to revive him but it was too late" I'm inclined to believe him.

Had there been a bomb under that coat, they would be heroes. It is very easy for us to sit back and judge. The bottom line is they are human and will unfortunately make mistakes -- obviously a very tragic one here. In my opinion, the terrorists can take credit for the loss of this young man's life.

You don't shoot someone five times in the head by mistake. The man was already in police cusdody when he was shot. He was pinned to the floor face down with two officers holding his arms it would have taken only a second to check for a bomb.

The way to stop the terrorism isn't to shoot everyone who is black and might have a bomb just in case, that doesn't defeat terrorism, that is terrorism.

[scorrie]

The person in question was wearing a heavy winter coat in summer. When challenged by the police, at the height of a security alert, he refused to respond and ran away. He had been living here for long enough to know that he had nothing to fear from the law. It was a tragic but wholly justifiable act in the circumstances.

I just wonder what your response would have been if the person had been one of your family members? Tragic but justifiable? I somehow doubt it. What if the guy were Joe Bloggs, family man from London, leaving a wife and four kids behind and complete with front page spread on every paper in the land showing the grieving widow. Cremated in a Tottenham strip and ashes spread in the centre circle at WhiteHart Lane. I would imagine a bit more of an outcry than there has been over just some guy from Brazil with a parka on in summer. Came out of a house the police were watching, must be guilty then, if not of bombing then of something else. At the height of a security alert perhaps HE was scared. I would say there was something unlawful about being bundled to the floor of a train and "executed" with five bullets. Even a slaughterhouse will do the job with one shot.

[katarina]

[You don't shoot someone five times in the head by mistake. The man was already in police cusdody when he was shot. He was pinned to the floor face down with two officers holding his arms it would have taken only a second to check for a bomb.

The way to stop the terrorism isn't to shoot everyone who is black and might have a bomb just in case, that doesn't defeat terrorism, that is terrorism.

This is what gets me. No matter how suspicious the man was acting, if they had him pinned to the ground, why did they have to shoot him? Not once - but five times? I know they're under a lot of strain and probably very angry, but it sounds to me that if some one is that trigger happy, they shouldn't be in that job!

[captain chaos]

but it sounds to me that if some one is that trigger happy, they shouldn't be in that job!

I would rather a police man/woman who was prepared to pull the trigger than one who hesitates and allows a bomber to denote his bomb.

He who hesitates is dead, whether it’s the bomber or the cop.

I am not condoning what has happened and an enquiry will establish the true events.

Any loss of life is terrible and when it’s an innocent life it’s that much worse

[kenimac1]

We are fortunate living where we do. The worst thing likely to happen to us on a commute is a stag leaping in front of the car.
I can only imagine what it must be like to go to work every morning wondering if you will end up in the middle of a bomb scare or the real thing. It's easy to pontificate about police states and so forth when you don't have to live with the consequences of letting a potential bomber escape into your neighbourhood.

[golach]

[quote="fred[
Wearing a heavy coat is a capital offence now?

He wasn't challenged by the police, I've known a few policemen in my time and most of them are nice people who work hard to preserve the peace for little reward and no thanks. He was challenged by three people dressed like gang members and carrying automatic weapons, does that sound like the police to you?

Policemen would never hold a man on the floor while one of them pumped five bullets into the back of his head even if they knew for certain the man was guilty of a crime, those wern't policemen those were state hired thugs.[/quote]

Where do you get your facts, from the Media? As far as I am concerned lets wait until the public enquiry comes out then point the accusing finger, in my opinion Fred, you are very quick to condem but you are very slow at offering tangible solutions. I personally dont have a solution, but I think our Police Force do a grand job in very difficult days.
And I think they were not hard enough on the G8 nusiances that we in the big city had to put up with. It must be a great life up in the surroundings o Latheron

[katarina]

[I would rather a police man/woman who was prepared to pull the trigger than one who hesitates and allows a bomber to denote his bomb.

If we can believe that they had his hands pinned behind his back, how could he set off the bomb - supposing he had one?

[smee]

I think the reason for the five shots is that anti terror squads who are working in enclosed spaces use low velocity rounds, so that the bullet does not travel further than the kill zone!

[fred]

I think the reason for the five shots is that anti terror squads who are working in enclosed spaces use low velocity rounds, so that the bullet does not travel further than the kill zone!

They also use hollow nosed amunition which spreads on impact but it's the reason there were any shots at all that is worrying.

Apparently our police force has been to countries which have a long standing problem with suicide bombers to learn how to deal with them, including Israel an apartheid state with an appaling record of human rights abuses. Israel is no nearer to solving the problem now than they were 20 years ago.

A more sensible approach would be to send our government to learn from the governments of countries which don't have a problem with suicide bombers.

[katarina]

I think the reason for the five shots is that anti terror squads who are working in enclosed spaces use low velocity rounds, so that the bullet does not travel further than the kill zone!

The gun was pressed against his head for goodness sake!

[katarina]

[A more sensible approach would be to send our government to learn from the governments of countries which don't have a problem with suicide bombers.

here here.

[Fifi]

Learn what exactly from other Governments? How to say nicely to suicide bombers "please don't blow us up!" ? The bombers are here and tactics to deal with them need to be in place.

The execution style method of shots to the head is particulary brutal but obviously effective and is designed to stop any chance of bomb detonation. Imagine being the officer who knows he is going to have to kill in cold blood or risk the chance of being blown up along with everything, and everyone, in the vicinity.

We can't possibly judge the issue sitting here with only the media 'facts' to go on. Only an independant enquiry will get to the bottom of it and I suspect that the intelligence information will be at the centre of the matter. Personally, I think this is a tragic event but I don't think you can slate officers on the front line following training and orders for the outcome.

[squidge]

It is appalling that this man is dead. Appalling for him and for his family and for us as well. State hired thugs is pushing it a bit far Fred and you are wrong to say they should learn from countries that dont have suicide bombers - how can we if they dont have them? dont make sense to me that.

However there has to be a balance between executing people on the street and allowing people top walk past and then blow up a bomb. I can only assume that the policement themselves really beleived they were in danger of being blown up by a bomb as they arrested this man, Imagine their fear and terror as they were tackling htis guy if they truly believed he was a bomber. They would have been expecting to die any moment - that surely does something to you.

I think its wrong to say there was no outrage in the papers i read plenty in yesterdays sundays. There should be an enquiry and clear and unambiguous guidelines should be given so that police know how to act in such circumstances.

It is worth noting that had this man been carrying a bomb the reports in the paper and the take on this story would be completely different. However if they have him completely incapacitated then why they had the need to shoot him i dont know but ill wait and see what the enquiry turns up

[fred]

Learn what exactly from other Governments? How to say nicely to suicide bombers "please don't blow us up!" ? The bombers are here and tactics to deal with them need to be in place.

The suicide bombers are here because of tactics like these, because in Iraq so far the US led forces have killed three times as many innocent civilians as the insurgents have.

If you justify the killing of innocent people by the police then you justify the killing of innocent people by the terrorists.

[scotsboy]

The suicide bombers are here because of tactics like these, because in Iraq so far the US led forces have killed three times as many innocent civilians as the insurgents have.

Pure conjecture on your part Fred. Please provide FACTS that link the suicide bombings in the UK and Iraq - you simply do not know or understand the aims or ideals of these radical groups if you think this.

[squidge]

The suicide bombers are here because of tactics like these, because in Iraq so far the US led forces have killed three times as many innocent civilians as the insurgents have.

If you justify the killing of innocent people by the police then you justify the killing of innocent people by the terrorists.

You said
The suicide bomber are here because of tactics like these?????????????

Actually Fred - there would be no need for tactics like these without suicide bombers.

I watched a policeman say today that this should only come after all other tactics - like intelligence, survellance and the like. There will be times when mistakes happen - the point is not to spout ill judged rhetoric like this but to examine "the facts" see why the mistake happened and make damn sure it doesnt happen again. It isnt up to you or I to make the judgement as to whether the action the police took was justifiable - i cant imagine how shooting someone who is poinned down could be so but then im not sure relying on the reports in the paper helps to make an informed decision. If this man was unlawfully killed then the enquiry should make sure that this comes out and those responsible should be tried in a court of law where people can be made aware of the facts.

Exageerated claims that london is akin to israel palestine and Iraq is just not helpful and complete nonsense