Scottish Independence

[porshiepoo]

Why bother becoming independent? We'd just be invaded by England or the US for our oil, so we'd just be back where we started from?

I don't think so! There's only about 6 - 10 years worth of sustainable oil left here.

[Rheghead]

Until the next time..........but it wouldn't be in my lifetime.........which admittedly isn't going to be much more than 20 years max!

Does that mean if we had a referendum and the result went for Independence you won't get behind the result until there is another one in 20 years when there is a referendum to go back to the UK?

[Oddquine]

Does that mean if we had a referendum and the result went for Independence you won't get behind the result until there is another one in 20 years when there is a referendum to go back to the UK?

Meant that if there was a referendum on independence and the country voted against, there wouldn't be another one in my lifetime........if we voted for, there'd not need to be another one......unless in the future there was a UK nationalist party formed.

If by getting behind the result you mean accepting the majority will..are there any other options?

[Boozeburglar]

I don't think so! There's only about 6 - 10 years worth of sustainable oil left here.

Really? You are 100% on this?

I think you must know something that one of my mates who carries out exploratory geological surveys for Chevron/Texaco does not. I am sure his company would pay a lot for what you know, they stand to lose billions of current investment if this is true.

The oil discoveries that were beyond the technology in the past, but are viable now, are just going to be left because they can't be bothered then?

The new sources West of Shetland are a hoax?

Of course, oil companies have to disclose everything they know to the public, and thus to their competitors.

Not! Only to select .Orgers I guess.

[Oddquine]

I don't think so! There's only about 6 - 10 years worth of sustainable oil left here.

A link to those figures?

There are around 25-27 million barrels left....and it has taken 40 years to remove 37 million.

[Rheghead]

if we voted for, there'd not need to be another one......unless in the future there was a UK nationalist party formed.

That doesn't seem very democratic to me, if the vote goes one way then we should get behind the result which ever way it goes. We could have as many votes for Independence as we want if we are not satisfied with the result and maybe after the nth time it goes Independence, that doesn't mean it will be good for Scotland or that the people want it. Similiarly, a complete novice can have as many throws at a dartboard until he hits the bullseye, doing that won't make him a good player.

[Oddquine]

That doesn't seem very democratic to me, if the vote goes one way then we should get behind the result which ever way it goes. We could have as many votes for Independence as we want if we are not satisfied with the result and maybe after the nth time it goes Independence, that doesn't mean it will be good for Scotland or that the people want it. Similiarly, a complete novice can have as many throws at a dartboard until he hits the bullseye, doing that won't make him a good player.

A result in a referendum won't stop those who didn't want that result from trying to change it politically.......and it is somewhat naive to expect it.

But if there was one in this Parliament which voted no (or yes), I can't see another one in my lifetime. That was what I was trying (badly) to say.

[Boozeburglar]

That doesn't seem very democratic to me, if the vote goes one way then we should get behind the result which ever way it goes. We could have as many votes for Independence as we want if we are not satisfied with the result and maybe after the nth time it goes Independence, that doesn't mean it will be good for Scotland or that the people want it. Similiarly, a complete novice can have as many throws at a dartboard until he hits the bullseye, doing that won't make him a good player.

People who are against it don't need to get behind it; if they don't want to live in an independent Scotland they can leave, campaign to change it or just put up with it grudgingly. Getting behind it could mean getting on with life as normal, and I suspect for the majority it will mean just that.

If it went for independence on the nth time it would mean the majority voted for it. Ipso facto the people want it, at the time at least.

When the masses vote the Tories back in after Gordon Brown's first full term it won't be good for the UK, but what can you do about those masses?

Anyway, it is not going to happen any time soon.

My opinion is that more and more powers will be devolved until we are all but in name independent, and the actual declaration of such shall assume less and less importance.

[Rheghead]

if they don't want to live in an independent Scotland they can leave

I think the same applies visa versa...

[scotsboy]

Really? You are 100% on this?

I think you must know something that one of my mates who carries out exploratory geological surveys for Chevron/Texaco does not. I am sure his company would pay a lot for what you know, they stand to lose billions of current investment if this is true.

The oil discoveries that were beyond the technology in the past, but are viable now, are just going to be left because they can't be bothered then?

The new sources West of Shetland are a hoax?

Of course, oil companies have to disclose everything they know to the public, and thus to their competitors.

Not! Only to select .Orgers I guess.

Most of them were not beyond technology, they were economically unviable. However now that the oil price has risen, they become economically viable......of course the oil price was forced up by tensions and conflict in the Middle East........and most of the companies involved in Exploration and enhanced oil recovery etc just happen to be American..........where's Fred?

[Oddquine]

Most of them were not beyond technology, they were economically unviable. However now that the oil price has risen, they become economically viable......of course the oil price was forced up by tensions and conflict in the Middle East........and most of the companies involved in Exploration and enhanced oil recovery etc just happen to be American..........where's Fred?

In addition,they're economically unviable because of the tax levels that Gordon Brown levied. There would be more incentive to get at the more difficult wells if oil revenues hadn't become such a cash cow for the UK Government that they can't consider reducing their take.

[porshiepoo]

OK, I see it was somewhat silly of me to say anything unless I have statistical analysis to back up what I say, I'll remember this in the future.

I did read a while ago a snippet about the amount of oil left in the North Sea and I'll see if I can find that same bit of info and quote it on here.
Perhaps I'll have to agree that my comment was as ignorant as the comment of Rockchicks that it was in reply to.

[horseman]

Why don't we just go the whole nine yards and have an independent Highlands. Or how about an independent Caithness?

I personally don't feel any more alligiance to someone from Southern Scotland than I do from Northern England.

What percentage of glaswegians do you think could point out Caithness on a map?

Thats enough to make me think !Verdana you have a valid point.Food for thought there,no all that sure what to make of it yet,need to chew it over for a bit,no doubt some intelligentsia may disagree.

[whitechina]

Why bother having polls about independence?They'll only be hijacked by supporters of the SNP to give reinforce the myth that a majority of Scots support such a policy.
As for being an independent country within the EU,well it's about time people woke up to the reality of that,the reality being that when your nation is having to implement and abide by laws passed by politicians in the EU parliament,politicians who incidentally, know little about us and care even less,then your country can in no way be described as truly independent.
We all know that the reason the SNP are so keen on the EU is that they see it as means by which to undermine the United Kingdom and to facilitate it's break up.

[NickInTheNorth]

It is perfectly possible to be "independent" and within the EU. Sure there is some legislation comes from the black heart of Brussels, but I prefer that to the stuff that comes direct from westminster.

As for the SNP, well they got my vote this time round, simply because I cannot bring myself to vote for either of the conservative parties, and I did not like some of the Libdems policies.

[theone]

As for the SNP, well they got my vote this time round, simply because I cannot bring myself to vote for either of the conservative parties, and I did not like some of the Libdems policies.

I think that is why the SNP were so succesful. A lot of people voted for them simply as protest against the rest.

The majority of "real" SNP supporters are that way because they want Scottish independance.

I personally think the majority of their policies stink.

[golach]

I think that is why the SNP were so succesful. A lot of people voted for them simply as protest against the rest.

The majority of "real" SNP supporters are that way because they want Scottish independance.

I personally think the majority of their policies stink.

I agree, I personally think that this election results were just a ginger vote, against Tony Blair and the problems in Iraq, under normal circumstances, Wee Fat Eck and his Tartan Tories would never have had a look in, roll on the next 4 years

[whitechina]

It is perfectly possible to be "independent" and within the EU. Sure there is some legislation comes from the black heart of Brussels, but I prefer that to the stuff that comes direct from westminster.

As for the SNP, well they got my vote this time round, simply because I cannot bring myself to vote for either of the conservative parties, and I did not like some of the Libdems policies.

No country can be independent if it is bound by laws passed in a parliament outwith it's own borders.That is a fact.
I'd rather be a citizen of the United Kingdom than a citizen of Europe.
Yes,I am proud to be Scottish.I am also equally proud to be British.But am I a European?Never!

[NickInTheNorth]

whitechina - I love "facts" made up on the fly to support peoples opinions

A real fact for you.

The UK parliament cannot pass legislation that is binding upon future parliaments. So each parliament is free to repeal any legislation it sees fit. Since the UK became a member of the EU no parliament has seen fit to repeal any of the legislation put in place by the EU and adopted in the UK.

As there is such a freedom available to the UK parliament then we are still "independent", i.e. we cannot be constrained to do what any other nation or supra national body dictates.

Also another wee problem for you. You state that you are not european. I am afraid that geomorphology has some bad news for you. You are european whether you like it or not. Of course being european has nothing to do with politics it is a simple accident of fate.

[Rheghead]

As there is such a freedom available to the UK parliament then we are still "independent", i.e. we cannot be constrained to do what any other nation or supra national body dictates.

I think the point that whitechina was making was that the Scottish Parliament cannot repeal any aspects of law that are not devolved, so in his/her opinion Scotland is not independent. If Salmond got a veto then the SNP could make real progress, however, he is not as strong as Thatcher and so he can't.