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Thread: No wonder they don't want us to have independence.

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Just wondering how much you have to hate Scotland to be doing cartwheels of joy over the SC ruling. It must be a strange feeling, professing your Scottishness, yet delighting in its subjugation to another country. And the really weird thing is that this blind and unquestionning loyalty to the UK has no real substance to it. In essence it means that if you are currently head over heels with the delight then what you are saying is that no matter how bad things are in the UK, and they are bad; really bad; I mean hopelessly bad, then you would genuinely rather hold on to a sinking ship than use the life-raft that Indy gives us. In another thread I asked for anyone to provide one positive, substantive argument for the union and nobody could.

    So, the UK is in terminal decline with only Russia having worse economic prospects. The rest of the world is coping far better with the effects of the war; Covid aftermath and CoLC. That is because the UK became the only country ever to impose economic sanctions upon itself (Brexit).

    And I really am mystified by all the UJ-waving that is going on. All the SC did was confirm the status quo. Nothing has changed except the fact that, from today, Scotland's subordinate role in the UK has been formalised by judicial decision. We wanted clarity. Now we have it. Scotland must come to heel whenever England demands it.

    So, to those of you puffing out your chests and thinking you have won something, I suggest that you may regret this pyrrhic victory. It will have done nothing but galvanise the support for "Yes". No-one on this side of the argument is going to change sides and treating Scotland like a second-class citizen will not win your side any votes.

    Finally, the latest Ipsos Mori poll shows 61% of Scots think the Union's coat is on a shoogly nail. Getting shooglier by the minute.

    What today and all its Union flag waving should tell you, is that what an appalling job the SNP have been doing. 15yrs and they still can't get anywhere near 50% of voters to vote for them.

    We're jumping for joy because it pushes back the date for yet another referendum.

    It does say an awful lot about the SNP and the wider Yes movement when so many of us would rather stay with the sinking ship than get in a rudderless, engine less compass less 'life raft' that is independence.

    I think the SNP are going to be in for a suprise when a fair few of their votes will be taken by Labour.

  2. #22

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    A few Months ago, a Poll showed that The Majority, (albeit Sma’), would not have voted for another Referendum!
    And may I add, not for an Independent Scotland.
    Methinks people are tired of all this….and it seems with the ‘Elite SNP’ and ALBA.

    Careers, and Beeg Money is being made by The Organizers. Too Much!
    Last edited by The Horseman; 23-Nov-22 at 23:17.

  3. #23

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    I agree with what you say- that is what I encounter when I speak to neighbours and friends. That's all I can report really and this despite that we have an SNP MSP in Caithness who was voted in by a clear majority.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Just wondering how much you have to hate Scotland to be doing cartwheels of joy over the SC ruling. It must be a strange feeling, professing your Scottishness, yet delighting in its subjugation to another country. And the really weird thing is that this blind and unquestionning loyalty to the UK has no real substance to it. In essence it means that if you are currently head over heels with the delight then what you are saying is that no matter how bad things are in the UK, and they are bad; really bad; I mean hopelessly bad, then you would genuinely rather hold on to a sinking ship than use the life-raft that Indy gives us. In another thread I asked for anyone to provide one positive, substantive argument for the union and nobody could.

    So, the UK is in terminal decline with only Russia having worse economic prospects. The rest of the world is coping far better with the effects of the war; Covid aftermath and CoLC. That is because the UK became the only country ever to impose economic sanctions upon itself (Brexit).

    And I really am mystified by all the UJ-waving that is going on. All the SC did was confirm the status quo. Nothing has changed except the fact that, from today, Scotland's subordinate role in the UK has been formalised by judicial decision. We wanted clarity. Now we have it. Scotland must come to heel whenever England demands it.

    So, to those of you puffing out your chests and thinking you have won something, I suggest that you may regret this pyrrhic victory. It will have done nothing but galvanise the support for "Yes". No-one on this side of the argument is going to change sides and treating Scotland like a second-class citizen will not win your side any votes.

    Finally, the latest Ipsos Mori poll shows 61% of Scots think the Union's coat is on a shoogly nail. Getting shooglier by the minute.
    Corky, could you provide a link to "Finally, the latest Ipsos Mori poll shows 61% of Scots think the Union's coat is on a shoogly nail. Getting shooglier by the minute." Many thanks.

  5. #25

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    What really gets me about all of this is that when you really think about it all those who are celebrating are doing so in the full knowledge that the SC has just confirmed the subordinacy of Scottish democracy. They are happy, indeed delirious, that their democratic rights have now been codified as being inferior to those of people living in England. Boris Johnson said that Westminster was England's parliament. What has now been made clear by the SC is that the UK (English) parliament's sovereignty has been deemed superior to the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland. You have effectively been told by the SC that you are a second class citizen; your democratic wishes don't count and that the Colonial Governor General (Alister Jack - SoSfS) will attend to your interests.

    Now whilst the UJ-wavers may be happy now, are they always going to be that way? Are they so subserviant by nature that they wish to be governed in-absentia? Now I get that many folk don't like the SNP. Quite often I don't like them either but after independence I am sure they will dissolve into parties that resemble our current crop. I really and honestly cannot believe that anyone could object to having a full rainbow of political choice but one which is solely for Scotland. What is so damned wrong with the Scottish people getting what they vote for? If you do think it is OK, then what you are saying is that is is perfectly fine for the Scottish people to be governed by a government they didn't vote for. Think about that. Really, really think about that.

    And if you still think that it's OK what are you going to think when the lunatic fringe of the Tory party, emboldened by the SC ruling, decides that it is about time Scotland is really brought to heal? After all the votes of Scots don't matter so why don't we re-name the place "North Britain" or "Scotlandshire". Let's abolish Holyrood and subsume all devolved powers back to Westminster. Scots law will be abolished as will the Scottish education system and the Scottish banks. The Scottish NHS will be privatised. Gaelic speaking will be outlawed. A flight of fancy - No! Many Tories have been advocating these types of policies for years. If that's what you want then you are entitled to your opinion but just don't force the rest of us to endure the nightmare.

    And Goodfellers, you and your pet attack-dog hurl personal abuse at me constantly and yet you want me to find internet links for you. Find your own.

  6. #26

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    What really gets me about all of this is that when you really think about it all those who are celebrating are doing so in the full knowledge that the SC has just confirmed the subordinacy of Scottish democracy. They are happy, indeed delirious, that their democratic rights have now been codified as being inferior to those of people living in England. Boris Johnson said that Westminster was England's parliament. What has now been made clear by the SC is that the UK (English) parliament's sovereignty has been deemed superior to the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland. You have effectively been told by the SC that you are a second class citizen; your democratic wishes don't count and that the Colonial Governor General (Alister Jack - SoSfS) will attend to your interests.

    Now whilst the UJ-wavers may be happy now, are they always going to be that way? Are they so subserviant by nature that they wish to be governed in-absentia? Now I get that many folk don't like the SNP. Quite often I don't like them either but after independence I am sure they will dissolve into parties that resemble our current crop. I really and honestly cannot believe that anyone could object to having a full rainbow of political choice but one which is solely for Scotland. What is so damned wrong with the Scottish people getting what they vote for? If you do think it is OK, then what you are saying is that is is perfectly fine for the Scottish people to be governed by a government they didn't vote for. Think about that. Really, really think about that.

    And if you still think that it's OK what are you going to think when the lunatic fringe of the Tory party, emboldened by the SC ruling, decides that it is about time Scotland is really brought to heal? After all the votes of Scots don't matter so why don't we re-name the place "North Britain" or "Scotlandshire". Let's abolish Holyrood and subsume all devolved powers back to Westminster. Scots law will be abolished as will the Scottish education system and the Scottish banks. The Scottish NHS will be privatised. Gaelic speaking will be outlawed. A flight of fancy - No! Many Tories have been advocating these types of policies for years. If that's what you want then you are entitled to your opinion but just don't force the rest of us to endure the nightmare.

    And Goodfellers, you and your pet attack-dog hurl personal abuse at me constantly and yet you want me to find internet links for you. Find your own.

    And Goodfellers, you and your pet attack-dog hurl personal abuse at me constantly and yet you want me to find internet links for you. Find your own.

    What you really mean, is that you lied about the 61% and can't find any evidence to back your lie up.

    Even NS said yesterday that the No vote was ahead of the Yes vote by a slim margin. So, why lie? You should set your standards higher than that. You remind me of the poor chap at the Wick retail park a few weeks ago claiming that over 90% of residents support independence. That wasn't you manning the white board and handing out marker pens, was it? He had your attitude.

    re-name the place "North Britain" or "Scotlandshire". Let's abolish Holyrood and subsume all devolved powers back to Westminster. Now there's an idea, I'll put that idea forward to my MP and you know what, I'll even ask that they name a street in every Scottish town after you for that amazing idea.

    Forget the ''lunatic fringe' of the Tory party, Great Britain will be run by Labour very soon.

    'Colonial governor? Were you not paying attention yesterday? Scotland is not a colony, the highest court in the land has stated that as fact.

    And finally, you really need to accept it's only the minority of Scots who think like you, not the majority, so stop acting on all our behalf's and claiming Scots are suppressed, you may feel like that, most of us don't.

  8. #28

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    So you are calling me a liar. I just want to be clear that you are adding that insult to the great long list of personal attacks you have made on me.

    Now, for no other reason other than to make you eat your words I'll post the link (which leads to the link) about 61%. I wonder if an apology might be forthcoming.

    https://www.believeinscotland.org/tw...-polling-show/

    Oh, and I was paying attention yesterday. Does it not strike you as curious that the oppressor denies doing any oppressing just in the same way a bully will deny bullying.

  9. #29

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    The UJ-wavers have made it clear they hate Scotland and are pleased that our democratic rights have now been classed as subordinate.

    Fortunately people across Europe think rather more highly of Scotland than most Britnats do.


  10. #30

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    The view from LBC with James O'Brien. Even an Englishman living in England can see through what has happened.


  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    So you are calling me a liar. I just want to be clear that you are adding that insult to the great long list of personal attacks you have made on me.

    Now, for no other reason other than to make you eat your words I'll post the link (which leads to the link) about 61%. I wonder if an apology might be forthcoming.

    https://www.believeinscotland.org/tw...-polling-show/

    Oh, and I was paying attention yesterday. Does it not strike you as curious that the oppressor denies doing any oppressing just in the same way a bully will deny bullying.

    Ok, I'll re-phrase it, you're not a liar just opaque with your sources. There is no such survey on the ipsos mori website, there is however a link on the ipsos uk knowledge panel website which is completely different, for information that site gets a score of 1.5 on Trustpilot, so I wouldn't read too much into anything they have to say, plus the question was in relation to 10 yrs time, not really relevant. It just shows you grasping at any straw that fits your aganda. BUT, if it gives you a crumb of comfort reading not very relevant surveys and only posting half the story on this site, carry on. Please, just post a link to your source everytime so anyone reading can check out what the source is really saying, rather than your interpretation of the information.

    Again, you couldn't have been paying attention, you're using that word 'oppressed' when the highest court in the land stated quite clearly Scots could not consider themselves 'oppressed'.

    Let's call it a day now, wait a year and a half for the next GE when it's almost certain Labour will win and see what they can do for Scotland, I know Sir KS has said no to a referendum as things stand, but his vision for the UK may mean you and other 'yessers' may actually think Scotland will do ok under Labour.

    The End

  12. #32

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    Very much NOT THE END.

    You called me a liar. You called me a liar when I was telling the truth. You called me a liar and are now using weasel words to attempt to squirm your way out of the hole you dug for yourself. The survey in question is on the IpsosMori website. You just haven't found it. The question about how many folk thought the Union wouldn't last was just one part of a wider survey.

    And if you think you can claim the moral high ground about citing sources at least I have never claimed you were lying when you failed to produce a link to a source.

    The highest court in the land. Is that the one based in London where the judges are appointed by the King based upon recommendations by the Prime Minister - see link:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_Kingdom. Not an awfully impartial arbiter is it? Oppressor is exactly the word to use in these circumstances but your red, white and blue spectacles won't let you see the truth.

    So let's not call it a day. For a start you haven't apologised. And for another start just because you have begun to realise that what I am saying is true does not mean you can hide from your part in betraying Scotland and the people who live here.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Very much NOT THE END.

    You called me a liar. You called me a liar when I was telling the truth. You called me a liar and are now using weasel words to attempt to squirm your way out of the hole you dug for yourself. The survey in question is on the IpsosMori website. You just haven't found it. The question about how many folk thought the Union wouldn't last was just one part of a wider survey.

    And if you think you can claim the moral high ground about citing sources at least I have never claimed you were lying when you failed to produce a link to a source.

    The highest court in the land. Is that the one based in London where the judges are appointed by the King based upon recommendations by the Prime Minister - see link:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_Kingdom. Not an awfully impartial arbiter is it? Oppressor is exactly the word to use in these circumstances but your red, white and blue spectacles won't let you see the truth.

    So let's not call it a day. For a start you haven't apologised. And for another start just because you have begun to realise that what I am saying is true does not mean you can hide from your part in betraying Scotland and the people who live here.
    Ok Corky, I'm feeling very magnanimous today, after all, it's been a good week, a VERY good week, so I'm sorry I offended you by calling you a liar, however as stated at the time and since, it's much simpler to post links to support your case, just as I do.

    Now we've cleared that up, I'm off out to quaff vast amounts of champagne to celebrate the fact that Scotland will always be part of the United Kingdom, unless Westminster says otherwise. Please,please don't post anything else expressing your outrage, it just makes my smile even broader. Have a great evening yourself!

    Ps Just had approval for the road sign idea, image below for your approval

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Goodfellers; 24-Nov-22 at 18:11.

  14. #34

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    The difference is that I would not have called you a liar. You went straight for the personal abuse option, as you so often do. It makes one wonder where you might be taking your behavioural cues from.

  15. #35

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    John Curtis giving his view on why Unionists don't want another referendum.


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