Are you on the fence over Scottish independence?

[Goodfellers]

I'm sure we can all agree, Nicola Sturgeons speech and latest update yesterday was high on rhetoric, but low on substance.

Robin McAlpine believes strongly in an independent Scotland but is no fan of the current SNP government.

This is his take on yesterday's announcement. If you're undecided about Scotland's financial future after independence (assuming it happens), it's worth reading.

https://robinmcalpine.org/this-paper...as-no-answers/

The latest dismal paper in a series of dismal papers shows that this is a Scottish Government that has no vision for independence and no realistic grasp of what being an independent country means."

[Fulmar]

Here is another on the economic side which makes for serious consideration.

Scottish independence: Why the 'Economics of Independence' paper is a step backwards from the SNP's Growth Commission report (msn.com)

[The Horseman]

Aye…to both the above.
But when one identifies A Problem, one must also propose A Solution……or two or three..etc!

[Corky Smeek]

Has anyone in the wider Yes movement ever tried to assert that becoming independent is likely to be plain sailing with no problems to overcome? Not that I know of.

(Just) One of the things that drives me nuts is hypocrisy. If the SG had not come up with a plan for Indy but still asked people to trust them and vote Yes then the MSM would have had a field day. Now that the SG has provided the first part of their plan the MSM is still having a field day by trying to pick holes in it. In other words "damned if they do; damned if they don't".

But the hypocrisy really goes into overdrive when one considers Brexit. The MSM did not question the absence of any plan for the periods before, during and after we left the EU. That worked out really well because there was no plan to disect and so it was easy for Brexiteers to concentrate on what they saw as the negatives of being in the EU. This gave them ample opportunity to scare many people into voting Leave. Of course, the lies about £350m a week for the NHS lead to a few Leave votes too, I am sure.

So, the Leave side won in 2016, with the almost full backing of the MSM, despite not having the slightest idea of what they were asking people to vote for. Yet in IndyRef1 and now with IndyRef2 the SG has produced detailed plans; held news conferences; provided press releases and done TV/Radio interviews. Yet the MSM don't look beyond the opportunity to pick holes and inflate issues into major crises.

Fear and lies won IndyRef1 for the No side. Fear and lies won Brexit for the Leave side. And now that IndyRef2 is on the horizon fear and lies are being used again. Just for once it would be nice to hear something positive about Scotland in our MSM. Instead we are subjected to a continual barrage of us being "too wee, too poor and too stupid" to run our own affairs. Well, we are none of those things.

Too wee - 9 out of the 10 richest countries in the world have populations comparable with Scotland.

Too poor - we are one of the most energy and resource laden countries on the planet. Few countries are better placed than Scotland. Just look at Ireland (now the richest country in Europe by per capita GDP).

Too stupid - Scotland has one of the highest percentage graduate populations in the world. Many of our Universities are truly world class. And we have a reputation for innovation and invention that is second to none.

So instead of concentrating on problems and letting the MSM tell us they are all insurmountable why don't we concentrate on finding solutions. There is not a country on earth who, having gained independence, didn't face problems. An independent Scotland will undoubtedly face them too but with our heart and soul; our will, our resources and determination we will overcome them and become a very successful independent country.

Remember that an adventure always starts with a single step. Let that step be a Yes vote.

[Goodfellers]

Has anyone in the wider Yes movement ever tried to assert that becoming independent is likely to be plain sailing with no problems to overcome? Not that I know of.

(Just) One of the things that drives me nuts is hypocrisy. If the SG had not come up with a plan for Indy but still asked people to trust them and vote Yes then the MSM would have had a field day. Now that the SG has provided the first part of their plan the MSM is still having a field day by trying to pick holes in it. In other words "damned if they do; damned if they don't".

But the hypocrisy really goes into overdrive when one considers Brexit. The MSM did not question the absence of any plan for the periods before, during and after we left the EU. That worked out really well because there was no plan to disect and so it was easy for Brexiteers to concentrate on what they saw as the negatives of being in the EU. This gave them ample opportunity to scare many people into voting Leave. Of course, the lies about £350m a week for the NHS lead to a few Leave votes too, I am sure.

So, the Leave side won in 2016, with the almost full backing of the MSM, despite not having the slightest idea of what they were asking people to vote for. Yet in IndyRef1 and now with IndyRef2 the SG has produced detailed plans; held news conferences; provided press releases and done TV/Radio interviews. Yet the MSM don't look beyond the opportunity to pick holes and inflate issues into major crises.

Fear and lies won IndyRef1 for the No side. Fear and lies won Brexit for the Leave side. And now that IndyRef2 is on the horizon fear and lies are being used again. Just for once it would be nice to hear something positive about Scotland in our MSM. Instead we are subjected to a continual barrage of us being "too wee, too poor and too stupid" to run our own affairs. Well, we are none of those things.

Too wee - 9 out of the 10 richest countries in the world have populations comparable with Scotland.

Too poor - we are one of the most energy and resource laden countries on the planet. Few countries are better placed than Scotland. Just look at Ireland (now the richest country in Europe by per capita GDP).

Too stupid - Scotland has one of the highest percentage graduate populations in the world. Many of our Universities are truly world class. And we have a reputation for innovation and invention that is second to none.

So instead of concentrating on problems and letting the MSM tell us they are all insurmountable why don't we concentrate on finding solutions. There is not a country on earth who, having gained independence, didn't face problems. An independent Scotland will undoubtedly face them too but with our heart and soul; our will, our resources and determination we will overcome them and become a very successful independent country.

Remember that an adventure always starts with a single step. Let that step be a Yes vote.

Do you actually believe that the general population of Ireland are really that well off? Have you actually been there (and I don't mean Dublin). It is NOT a wealthy country. Try reading this https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-are-1.4476247

The internet is full, and I mean full of SNP supporters shouting about giving twice as much to Westminster as we ever get back and that with independence the country will be able to raise the state pension to unheard of levels. If you don't see this, then I'm amazed.

It's Nicola Sturgeon and her governments job to prove to us it's in our interest to vote 'yes', but she is failing miserably. It's nothing to do with the press, she's managing it on her own.

I don't think either of the links provided by Fulmar or myself are msm, as I mentioned my source is very pro-independence and yet, he's ripped the SNP's case for indy to shreds.

[Corky Smeek]

Do you actually believe that the general population of Ireland are really that well off? Have you actually been there (and I don't mean Dublin). It is NOT a wealthy country. Try reading this https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...-are-1.4476247

The internet is full, and I mean full of SNP supporters shouting about giving twice as much to Westminster as we ever get back and that with independence the country will be able to raise the state pension to unheard of levels. If you don't see this, then I'm amazed.

It's Nicola Sturgeon and her governments job to prove to us it's in our interest to vote 'yes', but she is failing miserably. It's nothing to do with the press, she's managing it on her own.

I don't think either of the links provided by Fulmar or myself are msm, as I mentioned my source is very pro-independence and yet, he's ripped the SNP's case for indy to shreds.

Not everyone in Ireland is wealthy but neither is everyone in the UK. The fact remains that Irish per capita GDP far exceeds that of the UK. By your logic the UK is also not a wealthy country.

The internet is full, and I mean full, of anti-SNP supporters commenting about how much of a basket case Scotland is. If it is in such a parlous position then that is a pretty poor endorsement of the Union where Westminster still maintains control over roughly 85% of the Scottish economy.

If you don't believe the influence the press has then, I'm amazed. Think Tanks run by the ultra rich dictate to Government what policies to follow and the MSM willingly provide a forum in which these policies may be laid out to the public. See the video on the thread entitled: "What is the alternative to Scottish Independence".

I am fairly sure you are never going to vote Yes. Nothing NS could say would ever convince you, so to say she is "failing miserably" is only measuring her success against your liklihood of agreeing with her. On that basis she is never going to succeed.

Robin McAlpine has long been an adversary of NS. His writings have often been critical of her and this publication is just the latest in a long line. I think you have to read his article with that in mind. Lots of people disagree with NS and the SNP but still wish for independence; indeed I am often one of them. RMcA's vision on how to achieve and sustain an independent Scotland differs from that of the SNP but fundamentally both wish to see Scotland leave the Union. And critically, both believe an independent Scotland is perfectly viable. But, I do agree he is not really MSM.

Fulmar's source was The Scotsman. That is definitely the MSM.