An Economic Case for Scottish Independence

[The Horseman]

I didn't think you got it and you have just proved me correct.

The destination is not attainable the way things are going.....you need more than Wishful thinking and prayer.
There are many things in people’s hearts, but one needs a Strategy to fulfil same.

[Corky Smeek]

The destination is not attainable the way things are going.....you need more than Wishful thinking and prayer.
There are many things in people’s hearts, but one needs a Strategy to fulfil same.

Yes, but you appear to think that if you can throw lots of mud and make enough of it stick then you can bring an end to the independence movement. My argument is that, for many people, the belief in an independent Scotland runs deep and that our conviction to achieving our aim is not going to be swayed because two folk, however senior, fell out.

[The Horseman]

I am not throwing mud.....I can end the Movement?........What you don’t understand, is that these are the Two People, with their followers on either side, are going to turn people off.
The General Public want what is best for them, not to listen and hear this ‘s.......’ every day.
These two people as you call them, are the ones to take Scotland in a new direction. How can they, when they cannot get their ‘own house in order’!

[Corky Smeek]

You really, really still don't get it. I'll have one final go.

I have been an independence supporter for over 50 years. A dispute between two prominent figures within the movement is not going to make me, or any other ardent independence supporter, suddenly abandon their lifelong beliefs and become unionists. The dispute may represent a bump in the road towards our destination but that is all.

You are correct in your assertion that the general public want what is best for them. Unfortunately, the Scottish general public are constantly denied what they want by a Tory government who ignore their wishes, hopes and aspirations. That is why support for independence is increasing.

Talking of getting one's house in order you know, as well as I do, that the Scottish Tories pinned their election hopes on removing NS. They have been caught out as lying, conniving hypocrites who don't give a damn about Scotland. They have been more concerned about damaging NS than having any meaningful agenda for Scotland's future. They have been shown up for what they really are. Perhaps they should crawl out from under the rock they have been inhabiting and do some re-ordering of their own household. They have brought just as much disrepute upon the Scottish political scene as the AS/NS dispute has done.

[The Horseman]

Yes, there are the Ardent Supporters of the SNP. But you will have to convince those in the middle to jump and vote for Independence!
Not so easy, but these are the people you want on your side.
You got your vote and you/they turned it down....so if you ever get another vote then make sure you have the people. Not like the last time!

Actually the word is the supporters of the SNP are getting fed up. And they are losing confidence! Check it out!

[Corky Smeek]

Nope. Still not getting it.

Not everyone who votes SNP wants independence. Not everyone who wants independence votes SNP.

New poll out today shows an increase in support for the SNP of 4% - https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/202...gests-snp.html

[The Horseman]

Nope. Still not getting it.

Not everyone who votes SNP wants independence. Not everyone who wants independence votes SNP.

New poll out today shows an increase in support for the SNP of 4% - https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/202...gests-snp.html

Insert the Word...SUGGESTS.......That is not a ‘definitive’ number. But, didn’t the SNP think the same in 2014?

[Fulmar]

Well, now they can vote Alba if they want Independence and not the SNP.
Though why any woman would vote for a party led by Alex Salmond is beyond me.

[The Horseman]

Corky......here you all are again celebrating the fact that you may have maybe One % point over........
If you want to truly win you need it a lot higher than that.
Most decent Pollsters add Plus or Minus to their figures, so that the ‘undetermined’ people can swing either way, and you can still get 50% plus.

It seems you are all so desperate with this ‘winning thing’, that you forget there are ‘fickle’ people in the World, who one day will say one thing and then change it! Ya gotta get your ‘S......t’ together!

[dc1]

i have been a unionist for at least 60 yrs and would say we were better of in caithness before we had the snp in power for example our roads were in better condition we used to be able to have hospital appointments up here now have to go to inverness for them which only lasted about 10 mins i am in my 70 ties and still work and pay my taxes they ,dont look past inverness all they think about is the south of scotland

[Corky Smeek]

i have been a unionist for at least 60 yrs and would say we were better of in caithness before we had the snp in power for example our roads were in better condition we used to be able to have hospital appointments up here now have to go to inverness for them which only lasted about 10 mins i am in my 70 ties and still work and pay my taxes they ,dont look past inverness all they think about is the south of scotland

Ok, so you say the roads are in worse condition now and you blame the SNP. Fixing the non-trunk roads in Caithness is the responsibility of Highland Council who are run by a Unionist coalition of independents, Liberal Democrats and Labour. I don't mind you getting upset about the state of the roads but at least blame the correct people.

In so far as NHS (Scotland) is concerned you have to remember that we basically have a pocket-money economy in Scotland. Westminster decides how much money we get to spend. If we were able to keep all the revenue generated in Scotland and you were still having to travel to Raigmore for 10 minute appointments then I would share your concern. However, faced with a Tory government intent upon reducing the power and influence of Holyrood and upon privatising the NHS then I think, once more, you need to look elsewhere to for someone to blame.
If you are unhappy with the current NHS services in Caithness then I shudder to think how you would react to Westminster, or Unionist parties in Scotland, regaining control of them. For a start you would have to pay for any prescriptions - currently £9.15 per item in England.

If you want people living in another country to decide what government you get in this country then by all means vote for a Unionist party. But, I guarantee you a government which doesn't look past the M25 is not the answer.

[The Horseman]

What about the money the SNP has been stashing away for Indyref2......?
Wouldn't that be better spent on all that needs done!

[Fulmar]

Well, there is thankfully enough money in the NHS in Scotland to give a 4% pay rise to NHS workers compared to only 1% in the rest of the UK.
In what way is the Westminster govt intention curtailing the power of Holyrood? Also, just about everyone I meet thinks that the Holyrood govt is only interested in those living in the Central Belt- look at the Groat every week and you'll see that view upheld. You might not like it Corky but there it is- and plenty of evidence for it in my opinion.

[Corky Smeek]

What about the money the SNP has been stashing away for Indyref2......?
Wouldn't that be better spent on all that needs done!

How many times do you have to be told? The SNP stood at the last general election (and others previously) with a manifesto pledge to hold an IndyRef, if elected. There is no difference between that pledge and any another, for example a pledge to scrap prescription charges or bridge tolls. The electorate have effectively approved the spending by electing the party who promised to do the things it said it would and for which the people voted.

You have tried this angle umpteen times. Moaning because a party does what it said it would do. You would have plenty to say if it didn't do what was in its manifesto.

[dc1]

but who centralised everthing but snp the police you go to a station now and you will be very lucky to be able to see one and that is just one example of many , but thats not surprisng because they are looking after those who vote for them and you will never guess where they come from could it be the south of scotland.

[Corky Smeek]

Well, there is thankfully enough money in the NHS in Scotland to give a 4% pay rise to NHS workers compared to only 1% in the rest of the UK.
In what way is the Westminster govt intention curtailing the power of Holyrood? Also, just about everyone I meet thinks that the Holyrood govt is only interested in those living in the Central Belt- look at the Groat every week and you'll see that view upheld. You might not like it Corky but there it is- and plenty of evidence for it in my opinion.

At least the Scottish Government recognises and respects the massive contribution made by NHS staff over the past year, in particular. The same certainly cannot be said for the Tories who lavish praise on NHS staff then slap them in the face with a derisory 1% pay offer. But, if that's the kind of government you want then you know how to vote.

If you are not sure how the Tories intend curtailing the power of Holyrood then just Google "UK Internal Market Bill"; "Westminster Power Grab" or some other such term.

I have lived all over Scotland including the central belt. No matter where it was the locals always felt they were ignored at the expense of somewhere else. The grass is always greener.....

[Corky Smeek]

but who centralised everthing but snp the police you go to a station now and you will be very lucky to be able to see one and that is just one example of many , but thats not surprisng because they are looking after those who vote for them and you will never guess where they come from could it be the south of scotland.

OK, I tell you what. Vote Tory and let them reduce the size of government. That'll save a fortune but the general public won't see any of it. Quite the opposite, in fact, as the cost of hitherto free public services will fall upon you and me. They will privatise the NHS, the Police, your bin collection, pothole fixing etc, etc. If you would rather pay £5,000 for a cataract operation; have your grandchildren denied tertiary education because they cannot afford the fees and still not have your potholes fixed then you know what to do. In the words of the song - "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone".

[The Horseman]

How many times do you have to be told? The SNP stood at the last general election (and others previously) with a manifesto pledge to hold an IndyRef, if elected. There is no difference between that pledge and any another, for example a pledge to scrap prescription charges or bridge tolls. The electorate have effectively approved the spending by electing the party who promised to do the things it said it would and for which the people voted.

You have tried this angle umpteen times. Moaning because a party does what it said it would do. You would have plenty to say if it didn't do what was in its manifesto.

They were given their chance.....They said they will continue until they win......Lost it..and you don’t mention the money..£20 M.......or more.
The poor ‘Fowk’ would like a bit.
And you are forgetting the £MILLIONS the two ‘fish’ are using for Lawyers etc.
Did I ever think the Scots would be so stupid to put up with this. A def NO!

The ideology that the ‘Powers that Be’ can go after someone, anyone, and lose, and have to pay out $millions, and then force the Criminal System to do their dirty work and even lose that in Court....Sounds like Russia!
Trust me....this will affect the future of Scotland. Never mind what the sympathetic Media pundits and one sided Polls say..
You are in trouble.
Give all this a chance to calm down and then try. Stop spouting off about Manifestos! Use some common sense!

[Fulmar]

''They will privatise the NHS, the Police, your bin collection, pothole fixing etc, etc. If you would rather pay £5,000 for a cataract operation; have your grandchildren denied tertiary education because they cannot afford the fees and still not have your potholes fixed then you know what to do. In the words of the song - "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone".

There is no evidence for any of this and I am not a Tory and have never voted for them- but really. We do have a Scottish Parliament here and no party, Tories included have said anything about privatising the NHS which is devolved as we all know- along with many other powers including tax raising ones.

[Corky Smeek]

''They will privatise the NHS, the Police, your bin collection, pothole fixing etc, etc. If you would rather pay £5,000 for a cataract operation; have your grandchildren denied tertiary education because they cannot afford the fees and still not have your potholes fixed then you know what to do. In the words of the song - "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone".

There is no evidence for any of this and I am not a Tory and have never voted for them- but really. We do have a Scottish Parliament here and no party, Tories included have said anything about privatising the NHS which is devolved as we all know- along with many other powers including tax raising ones.

If you seriously believe there is no evidence then you really haven't been keeping up.

1. NHS - Look at some of the things the Tories have done in England - The Health & Social Care Act 2012 provides for greater access to the NHS market for private companies. Following that NHS contracts have been thrown open to private bidders.Two of these stirred up serious local opposition when it was announced that private companies could bid. The first was a £1.2 billion contract to provide end of life and cancer care in Staffordshire. The second was an £800 million contract to deliver services to the elderly in Cambridgeshire.

Also, it doesn't matter a hoot if the NHS in devolved. The UK controls around 80% of the Scottish economy and Westminster will use access to it to achieve trade deals. It will trample all over Holyrood if necessary.

2. Tertiary Education - Scottish students applying to a Scottish University attract fees of c.£1820/year. In most cases the Scottish Government pays these. English students applying to an English University attract fees of c.£9,250/year and in most cases have to pay these themselves.

Is that enough evidence for you?