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Thread: It's all going so well, isn't it?

  1. #1

    Default It's all going so well, isn't it?

    Three articles from the BBC over the last couple of days illustrating just how badly the Brexit Deal is going with respect to N. Ireland.

    1. Brexit: NI Protocol 'obstructs free movement of military'

    2. Brexit: Lough Neagh eels can't be sold in Britain

    3. Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

    What an absolute, complete and utter shambles. It would be laughable were it not so serious.

  2. #2


    Didn't I read somewhere that Scotland wanted to leave ‘The Union’.......even if Brexit didn't happen!
    And didn't The EU say they were not keen on Scotland joining them!
    And didn't I read Boris is on his way to see you!........

  3. #3


    He did - and breached lockdown rules in the process.

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    He did - and breached lockdown rules in the process.
    My best wishes...and good luck.

  5. #5


    He is the Prime Minister at present of the whole of the UK and he is entitled to come up to Scotland as such. I can hardly imagine the uproar if NS had been told she was not welcome in England and to me, her response to the PM's brief visit was point scoring at its worst and does her and her cause no good whatsoever. If she is concerned she had better report him to the police and see if she can get him fined but in the meantime I think she should grow up and shut up on that particular subject.
    On another topic, I wanted to remain in Europe but I'd be totally false if I said I would be glad to still be a member of the EU right now. I believe in giving credit where it is due (and it is the only credit that I am prepared to give) but the Westminster government did well in investing in vaccines and putting in orders for very many doses of vaccines that they did not even know at the time would work and the roll out of vaccination is going well throughout the whole UK. The response of Brussels falls far short and their recent actions shambolic and the whole world knows it in spite of what gloss that they and others might wish to put onto it.

  6. #6


    Wow Fulmar, that needs a response.

    No-one is disputing Johnson's right to visit Scotland. The problems with his visit are that, firstly he chose to do so for blatantly political reasons. He even (or at least his spin doctors) said as much himself when he havered about how much the Union has helped Scotland during the pandemic and how he thought independence was an irrelevance. Secondly, his visit did not fall into the category of "essential travel" under any definition currently in place governing the movement of people during the Covid crisis. He did nothing for his credibility by breaking the rules he is insisting everyone else follows.

    I really do think you saying Sturgeon was political point scoring is curious. What the hell was Johnson doing if it wasn't exactly that? Fortunately, Johnson's scoring record is appalling and his visit achieved nothing he hoped it would. Furthermore, I really don't think NS would even contemplate a visit to England at the moment. She knows it would be against the rules and is savvy enough to realise the press would savage her for doing it despite them not doing the same with BJ. In any case, I know she has already turned down requests to visit various locations in Scotland because she knows it is against the rules.

    As to the EU and the vaccine issue I think you should be very wary of any reports from the MSM who are, almost without exception, rabidly anti-EU. They will spin any story they can to suit that agenda. One thing I will say is that Westminster has not done well in investing in vaccines. What they have done in ordering and hoarding many tens of millions of extra doses is deny access to the vaccine to other countries, particularly those in the third world. In attempting to rid themselves of their reputation as incompetent nincompoops they have sought to turn vaccine acquisition and delivery into a race. All of the vaccines so far approved for use in the UK are, essentially, untested at least in comparison to standard vaccine approval protocols. HMG have been pursuing this insane policy for political ends not health or societal ones. By their actions HMG are denying access to millions of people in other countries and in so doing have shown themselves to be utterly heartless. This is a global pandemic yet the UK government is actively pursuing a policy that will lead to the deaths of many thousands of people. And, it is not sufficient to say, who cares about other countries? The entire planet is affected and for us to be stockpiling 3 or 4 times as many doses as we need is utterly immoral. The UK will not be free from Covid until the world is free from it. We need to be acting to ensure every country has sufficient supplies.

    So, in summary, the EU may have been hasty in their actions but the UK will have blood on its hands if we continue with this policy.
    Last edited by Corky Smeek; 31-Jan-21 at 23:05. Reason: clarity

  7. #7


    corky smeek your bias is beyond belief

  8. #8


    I am very happy to be biased. Doesn't mean I'm not right though.

    The Daily Mail is biased. They too seem happy to be so. Doesn't mean they are not wrong though.

  9. #9


    Well, I wonder now how many of the people of Scotland are going to be clamouring to re-join the EU after an un-elected Brussels has shown itself to be quite capable of taking unilateral action which majorly affected a member state (Ireland) without even consulting that country's parliament. Said action had the un-precedented effect of uniting all the political parties in Northern Ireland (and indeed in the south) in condemnation. I do hope that the SNP are going to hold a referendum on re-joining the EU after Indyref2. So much for being a so-called independent country in the EU!
    Your problem Corky is that there will be many in Scotland (and possibly reading this Forum) who think as I do and we all have a vote in May.
    Last edited by Fulmar; 01-Feb-21 at 12:43.

  10. #10


    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    I do hope that the SNP are going to hold a referendum on re-joining the EU after Indyref2.
    The implication being that you and all the others who think like you are expecting a Yes vote in IndyRef2. I'll go with that.

    Also, if a future independent Scotland votes to stay out, or apply for re-admission to the EU is fine with me. The important thing is that the people of Scotland would have chosen their own future rather than having someone else's choice foisted upon them.

  11. #11


    Yes, as I have said already, I do think as things stand so far as I can tell (as recent polls indicate) that it will be a majority for the SNP although I also think that recent events may have an impact. I do not know by how much (if any) but it is possible and even you might concede that to be the case. It is the policy of the SNP (correct me if I am wrong) to immediately apply to re-join the EU following a future vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

  12. #12


    Sorry, I'm not sure what vote you are referring to. In your post yesterday morning you said a referendum "after IndyRef2" which would imply that there had been one; "Yes" had won and Scotland was independent. In that last post you mention recent polls and "a majority for the SNP", which refers to the Holyrood elections later this year. Either way the important point is that the people who live in Scotland get to chose the form of government they want. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. It is after all, the system used throughout much of the world. What is so goddamned awful about us having that same status? Two large constitutional questions lie before us. Should we remain the UK; should we apply to re-join the EU. In Scotland, we don't even have the power to ask the people those questions. We have to ask another country for permission. That is wrong on every level.
    I'm sorry, I cannot answer your question on the SNP I am not a member.

  13. #13


    Sorry, yes it is muddled. I meant that I think that the recent poll evidence suggests that there will be a sweeping win for the SNP but it may be that the whole Covid vaccination issue has some effect. It will be interesting to see any new polls. I accept that a majority win for the SNP means that the Indyref2 is going to be 'live' although I also think that some people may vote SNP because they are supportive of the way Nicola Sturgeon has dealt with the pandemic rather than that they are itching for an immediate Indyref2. I think it is valid to suggest that even with a majority win, the timing of Indyref 2 in the wake of a pandemic is a tricky one and that Scots may be more concerned with all the aspects of the recovery from that, both medical and economic. Recent polls suggest a win in an Indyref 2 (again have there been any since this vaccination debacle?) but I think that if this happens, we should be consulted on whether we do actually want to join the EU. The SNP, it seems to me, in the event of a majority win in May are going to hold Indyref 2 come what may so I'm not too sure what you mean about permissions if they are going to do it anyway.

  14. #14


    Ok, that's fine. I understand now. What I meant by "permission" is having to go cap-in-hand to Westminster and ask for a S.30 agreement to hold IndyRef2. That is nothing short of ridiculous. Can you imagine the reaction in the Tory party if the UK had had to ask the EU for permission to hold an EU referendum? Yet, they are resolute in their denial of the settled will of the Scottish people in wanting another Indyref. Their hypocrisy on this issue is nothing short of breathtaking.

    So far as I know the SNP have been exploring other (legal) ways to hold an IndyRef that does not involve gaining Westminster's permission. I am not sure what the outcome is/will be.

    When you refer to a "vaccination debacle" I take it you are referring to Westminster's calamitous handling of the issue. I can't really see that having any effect other than bolstering support for independence.

  15. #15


    No, I meant the EU- I'm sure you know that! As far as I'm concerned, the vaccine roll out in the UK is the one thing that is going well. If Scotland at this time had been 'independent' but in the European Union, then we would be watching the remainder of the UK rolling out its vaccination programme while Scotland languished in the EU queue. I know it does not suit you that people like me think that but I'm afraid I do think it and am not likely to change. Also, the UK is committed to rolling out vaccination world wide but with over 100,000 now dead, I for one think that the UK population needs protecting, just like everyone else. The UK government did support the research and did place the orders for the vaccines which every scientist and medic say do work- despite what you implied above. I happen to believe the scientists and medics and have faith in them not the president of France who is trying to quell and divert the discontent amongst his own people by his ill informed pronouncements.

  16. #16


    Yes, but your argument is a bit specious if you don't mind me saying. Scotland is not in the EU. Scotland got pulled out of the EU against the will of two-thirds of it's population. You surely cannot be basing your views on independence on a non-existant, hypothetical (if that makes sense) situation. Even if your argument is valid, and let's for the moment agree that it is, why are you concentrating on a negative impact of EU membership? What about all the positives that are now lost to us; eg, "If Scotland at this time had been 'independent' but in the European Union" our businesses would not have been faced with massively increased bureaucracy and delays. These are putting their very existence under threat and could make many thousands unemployed. Covid will be defeated at some point soon but the damage to UK businesses will last for many, many years.

    It is the first duty of a government to protect the best interests of its population. I have no problem with the UK acquiring sufficient vaccine doses for our needs. However, I have a huge problem with them stockpiling vast quantities when third world countries are being denied supplies because the UK is hoovering them all up.

    The scientific community is not saying the vaccines work. They are saying that at this early stage in the development and deployment the evidence they have suggests the vaccines are effective. That is not the same as saying definitively that they work. There is simply not enough longitudinal data for any scientist to be that sure. The normal testing protocols for the Covid vaccines have been shortened massively. It is not unusual for vaccine testing to take many years. These ones have been tested for only a few months. I have faith in the scientists too. It's just a shame Boris Johnson chooses so often to ignore their recommendations in favour of political expediency.

  17. #17


    We have to agree to differ, I think.

  18. #18


    The problems are never the fault of the UK, of course! Come on Mr Jonathan Foreigner. Play the game; fair play, a straight bat and all that!

  19. #19


    I guess we are all still waiting for the G and T and the peanuts! Think we're in for a long wait.

  20. #20


    Another consequence of Brexit.

    The (dis)UK economy is largely based upon financial services. Our manufacturing capacity has reduced significantly in recent decades so you would think it would be vital not to do anything rash that could put the financial services sector at risk. Yet here we, are 6 weeks down the line and Amsterdam is ousting London as Europe's premier trading hub. Thanks Brexiteers!

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