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Thread: A Very Dark Future

  1. #41

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    Well, there we have it!

    The UK economy in freefall with GDP down 20%; 20 years for the economy to recover; the Covid19 response an utter shambles; the EU saying that all goods imported from the UK will be subject to full customs checks from January 2021; trade talks with the EU faltering and the hardest of hard Brexits on the horizon.

    The UK's broad shoulders, that we heard so much about in the lead up to IndyRef1, have slumped rather alarmingly, don't you think?

    Still glad you voted "No" in 2014?

    Fortunately, we will have an escape route via IndyRef2 sometime soon.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Well, there we have it!

    The UK economy in freefall with GDP down 20%; 20 years for the economy to recover; the Covid19 response an utter shambles; the EU saying that all goods imported from the UK will be subject to full customs checks from January 2021; trade talks with the EU faltering and the hardest of hard Brexits on the horizon.

    The UK's broad shoulders, that we heard so much about in the lead up to IndyRef1, have slumped rather alarmingly, don't you think?

    Still glad you voted "No" in 2014?

    Fortunately, we will have an escape route via IndyRef2 sometime soon.
    And you forgot to mention the very real prospect of becoming the USA's 51st State as Trump & Co dictate our trade (and probably other) laws and take over the few public services have left.

  3. #43

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    A Question......Where is the money coming from to have Ref2?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    A Question......Where is the money coming from to have Ref2?
    The same place the money comes from to fund other government policies - public funds. IndyRef 2 has been included in every SNP manifesto since 2014. The SNP said, before the last Holyrood election, that if we elected them they would hold a second independence referendum. Holding IndyRef2 is merely carrying out their manifesto promise. It is, after all, the expectation of the electorate that an elected party does what is said it would do if it were elected. That being the case public funds will be used just like they would be to fulfil other manifesto pledges. The public have "authorised" the expenditure by voting them into government.

    You and the other BritNats on here would be the first to complain if the SNP did not carry out their manifesto pledges. So, stop complaining about a government actually doing what it said it would do.

  5. #45

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    Seems a ‘bit strange’.
    In a time of need like most people have never seen, you want to spend large sums of money on a cause which the majority of Scots have already voted against.
    Would you not take that money and enhance the lives of those who are in need. e.g. Health Care, which I hear people consistently complain about....Yes the Scots do!
    And assist ‘The Scots’ in having better lives in the aftermath if Covid!
    Over 2U.

  6. #46

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    People are allowed to change their minds especially when the decision they made was based upon lies and deception. David Cameron admitted his policy to win IndyRef1 was to do so at any cost; whatever it took. Project Fear was the manifestation of this.

    On your second point; that is exactly why we need IndyRef2. With independence we can use our own resources as we see fit and channel money to where it is needed and where the Scottish people want it to be spent. At the moment Westminster still controls about 85% of the Scottish economy. We have little or no say in how that money is allocated because Westminster ignores Scotland.

    If we need to spend public money now to secure a more prosperous and better future after Covid19 then so be it. Some of us are thinking long term (despite our age). You appear to be advocating short termism - no IndyRef and spend the money on the NHS. That's fine but those benefits will be short lived. We need to be looking much further ahead. We cannot continue to allow Westminster to drag us into the mire of their creation.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    Seems a ‘bit strange’.
    In a time of need like most people have never seen, you want to spend large sums of money on a cause which the majority of Scots have already voted against.
    Would you not take that money and enhance the lives of those who are in need. e.g. Health Care, which I hear people consistently complain about....Yes the Scots do!
    And assist ‘The Scots’ in having better lives in the aftermath if Covid!
    Over 2U.
    I know that many on here won't read Wings(out of principle, because he is pro-indy or simply because he highlights uncomfortable truths) but to quote him " We’ve noticed a fair few Unionists this week proudly claiming that an independent Scotland would have been too broke to survive the coronavirus pandemic. They might not listen to our many and comprehensive rebuttals but maybe they’d heed the words of Tony Blair, from way back in Ocrober 1987" As his closing remark says "When Unionists tell you Scotland is feeble, remember who made it that way, and never forget how it could have been".
    http://https://wingsoverscotland.com...h4vS1rmrSiycf8

    Bear in mind...if we are too poor to cope with adversity after 300 years in the Union...why ARE we that way...when countries of the same size and smaller are managing the pandemic just fine and are not obsessing about the economic fallout. A fallout which will be less for countries within the EU, I suspect, than it will be for us, as a part of a Brexited UK under WTO rules, even with the "broad shoulders" of the USA rushing, waving its list of demands, to provide the UK with its preferred comfort blanket, provided we allow them to dictate our rules and regulations under the threat of no trade deal? If you think the EU dictates too much, even though we have a vote on anything proposed, at least there we get a vote...with the USA we will just have to suck it up, buttercup...or no trade deal!

    Anyway a referendum doesn't cost as much as you seem to think. The last indyref cost around £16 million...compared to around £130 million for the EU one.
    Last edited by Oddquine; 14-Jun-20 at 17:16.

  8. #48

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    Wouldn't it be a nice gesture to donate some of the Money being ‘stashed’ away, to help the Scottish people and their Healthcare.
    £16 M is a lot of money to take out of the Countries budget. Why are you keeping the peoples money! Its not yours...It belongs to the people!
    I see you received £800k already last May to update the Healthcare system...was Bill Fernie responsible for that?

    Make the people of Scotland think well of your endeavours for the Ref.......
    Don't get would up on Brexit and the US......
    Be kind!

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    £16 M is a lot of money to take out of the Countries budget. Why are you keeping the peoples money! Its not yours...It belongs to the people!
    Why are you still going on about this? The SNP told people before the last Holyrood election that, if elected, they would spend public money on IndyRef2. The people then elected an SNP government. That means that the democratically elected Scottish Government is spending the "peoples (sic) money" in the way the people want. That is democracy in action. You are always berating Yessers for (in your view) not respecting the result of IndyRef1. Isn't it about time you started respecting the result of the last Holyrood election?

  10. #50

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    Sorry to offend you...
    Would be nice to help those in need.
    You may find that people with a myriad of troubles, are not thinking about another Ref at this time!

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    You may find that people with a myriad of troubles, are not thinking about another Ref at this time!
    No, they're thinking what a pig's ar*e HMG have made of just about everything and how, unless things change dramatically, their lives are going to be much poorer in the future. Fortunately, we in Scotland have an escape route if we chose to use it.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    Wouldn't it be a nice gesture to donate some of the Money being ‘stashed’ away, to help the Scottish people and their Healthcare.
    £16 M is a lot of money to take out of the Countries budget. Why are you keeping the peoples money! Its not yours...It belongs to the people!
    I see you received £800k already last May to update the Healthcare system...was Bill Fernie responsible for that?

    Make the people of Scotland think well of your endeavours for the Ref.......
    Don't get would up on Brexit and the US......
    Be kind!
    There is no money "being stashed away" Where on earth are you getting that from? If Scotland received £800K it was via Barnett, because Westminster has allocated extra spending from the joint money paid into the Treasury by all four nations, on departments in England, like health and education,which are devolved to Scotland....simply some more of our own taxes being handed back to us as if it was a gift. Do you actually know how the finances of the devolved Governments work?

    Funny that you don't demand that Westminster, which has a demonstrably worse healthcare set-up than Scotland, if the reaction to the pandemic is anything to go by, does the same...finds the money out of the combined resources of all four countries in the Union, to help the UK population and their health care, by increasing their spending on health services for England, and thus Barnett consequentials for the other three countries in the Union. In the current circumstances, that would have been more useful after the failure of the pandemic response trial of 2016 than spending billions in funding an incompetent "Exiting the EU" department, which has wasted millions on the likes of contracting with ferry companies with no ferries. Westminster could maybe even have thought twice about contracting for ventilators from companies in the UK which could actually produce them, instead of wasting millions in handing Dyson a contract to design and produce useless ones in India or wherever their factories are based now.

    I find it somewhat ironic that so many people who used to live in the UK, but don't anymore,appear to wear the same union-jack coloured specs as so many still here. I wonder if it is because they remember only the better years, before Thatcher...and are a bit nostalgic for the UK of the past...the one they still think exists, is of importance to the world and is punching above its weight.

    I ask yet again, and still await a response...why do you think the Union is such a great idea and that Scotland, alone of all the small countries in the world, is incapable of fending for itself. What benefits does being in the UK bring to Scotland that it couldn't do just as well, if not better on its own?

  13. #53

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    I really don’t know the entire History if the last Ref and who played fair!
    For now the Winner was the NO side, so my thought would be to assist in this long ‘turn around’ and ‘help your neighbor’, whomever that may be.
    Work away quietly at your Divisive Strategies, but be part of helping The World.
    Last edited by The Horseman; 15-Jun-20 at 14:47.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    I really don’t know the entire History if the last Ref and who played fair!
    For now the Winner was the NO side, so my thought would be to assist in this long ‘turn around’ and ‘help your neighbor’, whomever that may be.
    Work away quietly at your Divisive Strategies, but be part of helping The World.
    Helping your neighbour and working for independence are not mutually exclusive.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    Helping your neighbour and working for independence are not mutually exclusive.
    While helping your neighbour who is working for eventual independence is not an acceptable option, going by the way Westminster has been behaving since 2014.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    I really don’t know the entire History if the last Ref and who played fair!
    For now the Winner was the NO side, so my thought would be to assist in this long ‘turn around’ and ‘help your neighbor’, whomever that may be.
    Work away quietly at your Divisive Strategies, but be part of helping The World.
    If anybody was playing unfair it would be the "NO side"
    They made a big song & dance (especially when they thought that they where going to lose) about how a NO vote was the only way to guarentee continued membership of the EU. So much for that...
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  17. #57

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    It is what it is!
    Sour Grapes................

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horseman View Post
    It is what it is!
    Sour Grapes................
    Not sour grapes,anger because it is what it is. There is justifiable anger at the subsequent removal of the status quo so many thought they were voting for... and at the refusal to implement the VOW, which others voted for....and because not one single promise made has been kept. With Brexit and EVEL the status quo we had has gone completely and if we are to be heaing into uncharted waters...it seems a lot more sensible to do it rowing our own boat, as opposed to manning the oars of a galley under the whip of a captain and crew treating us like possessions and not equals.

  19. #59

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    Perhaps you are correct.
    Politics is known to promise ‘The World‘, and fail at every one.

  20. #60

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    I think the sour grapes is actually on the "No" side. They bitterly resent that having "won" IndyRef1 they've been unable to put the matter to bed. The fact that there is clear evidence that support for Independence is growing is a severe aggravation. Yet, the fault lies completely at their own door. The Unionist parties, who as Oddquine so eloquently put it above, have failed to deliver on any promise made prior to IndyRef1. Win at any cost was the mantra and that included making any promises necessary to secure a No vote, safe in the knowledge that none would ever have to be delivered.
    In short, the Scottish public were deceived, lied to, hoodwinked and bribed in order to maintain the status quo. Any Union which has to rely on such tactics is, of course, inherently flawed and weak as a consequence. The Scottish public are increasingly aware of this. Having seen the disrespect and contempt with which Westminster views Scotland and our Parliament they are not prepared to put up with it.

    A Change is Gonna Come

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