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Thread: Boris Johnson

  1. #41

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    Did the Scottish government fare any better in all of this?

    Every government will learn from this hopefully, once in a life time event. Not sure why people want to try and score 'cheap' political points over this worldwide chaos.. Not many governments will be able to say they would handle it exactly the same if it happened again.

  2. #42

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    I agree. It achieves absolutely nothing in my view. We absolutely do need to pull together to get through this and the complexities of it are ongoing.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    We absolutely do need to pull together to get through this and the complexities of it are ongoing.
    If only HMG also agreed with that sentiment.

  4. #44

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    Nicola Sturgeon giving an excellent interview on radio 4 this morning, stressing the absolute need for co-operation within the UK and throughout the world right now and need for consistency. As she says 'the virus has no borders and all are trying to do their very best'. Also, that it party politics is the last thing on her mind right now and she is being guided by all scientific advice. Good for her.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    Nicola Sturgeon giving an excellent interview on radio 4 this morning, stressing the absolute need for co-operation within the UK and throughout the world right now and need for consistency. As she says 'the virus has no borders and all are trying to do their very best'. Also, that it party politics is the last thing on her mind right now and she is being guided by all scientific advice. Good for her.
    How can you remove party politics from a situation which has been dealt with in the UK, from the outset, as a political exercise?

    Pulling together doesn't mean agreeing uncritically/slavishly with every action and utterance of Governments. Pulling together means not doing things which put other people, and yourself, at risk. Pulling together means obeying the lockdown to the letter, regardless of your own opinion as to the level of restriction that suits you best and which bits of it you can happily ignore. The devolved assemblies/governments are pulling together, but locking down your individual physical body doesn't require locking down your mind....after all that's the only part of you which is free to roam and posting opinions/facts on forums/FB etc is the only socially distant method of doing so.

    Cooperation needs more than one person/government to do it...and the one thing I have noticed about our UK Government is that cooperation is not a word with which they appear comfortable, not even cooperation with all the legislatures of the countries within this Union, far less with countries in the EU and wordwide. Where was the cooperation in the years between 2016 and the outbreak of coronavirus in order to respond to the damning indictment in the report of the UK's preparedness to deal with a pandemic? Where was the cooperation in the Westminster decision to refuse to take part in the EU bulk-buying of medical equipment? Where was the cooperation with the parts of the UK outside England when Westminster decided its first priority was to protect the economy, and not the population, by relying on "herd immunity"...the same tactic as was used during the days of the Black Death and the Spanish Flu?

    After the Spanish Flu, the consensus was that the Government did too little, too late, with the result that a quarter of a million people died......and in the hundred years since then...the UK Government has learned nothing. The Joint Ministerial Committee set up at devolution to act as a focus for the coordination of the relationships between the administrations is just a joke.

    Cooperation, as far as Westminster is concerned, means doing as Westminster tells you.
    Last edited by Oddquine; 17-Apr-20 at 11:20.

  6. #46

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    ''After the Spanish Flu, the consensus was that the Government did too little, too late, with the result that a quarter of a million people died......and in the hundred years since then''

    Oh my goodness, the Spanish flu pandemic after the First World War is now Boris and the Tories' fault too!
    Just quoting your dear leader this morning, that was all. No doubt if you were Fm, you would be doing and saying it differently.

  7. #47

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    fulmar some on here have one track minds .I dont like Nicolas politics but I think she is doing a good job just as I think the uk government are as well

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    ''After the Spanish Flu, the consensus was that the Government did too little, too late, with the result that a quarter of a million people died......and in the hundred years since then''

    Oh my goodness, the Spanish flu pandemic after the First World War is now Boris and the Tories' fault too!
    Just quoting your dear leader this morning, that was all. No doubt if you were Fm, you would be doing and saying it differently.
    That first sentence is utter pointless codswallop.

    I'd have said exactly the same as she did...that is called diplomacy at a time when you don't want the four governments at each other's throats..... and she is not my dear leader...I don't do putting people on pedestals and proclaiming them deities, regardless of their political leanings. I am not a Nicola Sturgeon fan, and don't think she walks on water, though I do think she is reasonably competent...but given she IS FM, she is your dear leader as well, is she not, or don't you live in Scotland?

    I have to acknowledge, much as it irritates me to do so, that Boris Johnson is currently the leader of the UK, and would have been without a single Scottish vote, but I don't see why I should pretend he walks on water either or is even vaguely competent. I don't do "my country right or wrong...whether I think that country is Scotland or the UK.

    I will criticise where I feel I have reason to criticise, and the usual response on a political forum is to contradict what is said...not make up something which was never even hinted at. Perhaps instead of snide ad hominems, you could explain to me why herd immunity was the greatest idea since sliced bread that you think nobody should be criticising Boris Johnson and his Cabinet for making that their first reaction, despite the lessons of both history and of the countries which did it differently and more effectively? .

  9. #49

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    You are entitled to your point of view as I am mine- and excuse me, but from where I sit, you are the one throwing out the superior comments against others, not me.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    You are entitled to your point of view as I am mine- and excuse me, but from where I sit, you are the one throwing out the superior comments against others, not me.
    What superior comments am I throwing out? I am "throwing out" logical opinions based on the actions/inactions of the UK Government in this pandemic. If my comments are "superior" does that mean that the actions/inactions I comment on were "inferior". If so, then I tend to agree.

    You, however are not entitled to manipulate words I said to make it appear I made remarks I did not make. You are certainly entitled to interpret my remarks in a way so as to allow you to make snidey comments, because you obviously have nothing to say to counter my opinions with youir opinions/examples of the good this UK Government has done and is doing in this current crisis..but I am equally entitled to respond to those snidey comments based on wilful misinterpretations. Perhaps if you stop doing that...I might stop responding to you.

    If this thread was intended to be a " My God...isn't Boris Johnson just marvellous ...he has ended up in hospital in the ICU, ventilator at the ready with Coronavirus and is still, unlike 99% of others in the ICU, keeping up with Government affairs. He is so wonderful and such a blessing to us all" then it shouldn't have been on the Political Forum, but in General or simply as a post on the Coronoavirus thread which is already there. Then I wouldn't even have seen it.

  11. #51

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    This thread was started by Shabbychic, not me. Perhaps you had better ask her what she intended by it. For me, I think anything more is utterly pointless so I'm bowing out of this thread anyway.

  12. #52

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    I thought that Scotland had its own NHS, own Health Protection Scotland and own SGoRR. My understanding was that the Scottish government are happy to co-operate with the UK government as much as possible, but can choose their own path if preferred.

    All I'm seeing on here is complaints about how the Tories are mismanaging this WORLDWIDE crisis. No mention of the Scottish governments handling on the crisis, why is that?

    Scottish government say that the NHS (in Scotland) "
    The NHS has been specifically preparing for the possibility of a wider outbreak of coronavirus since the beginning of the outbreak in Wuhan ",

    You might ask, why didn't the NHS start ordering PPE last November, or ordering millions of test kits. Why is it that only the UK government are getting slated on here? As others have said, this is not the time to be playing the blame game, wait until we are on top of this pandemic.Then all the 'experts' with the benifit of hindsight can say 'Oh, if only they had done this or that at that particular time'. Hindsight makes everyone an 'expert'.

    The next general election will be when we find out if the general public are happy with the UK governments handling of the outbreak.

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/co...s-in-scotland/




  13. #53

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    I'll give you one reason.

    You and all the others of a BritNat persuasion are constantly telling us how Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to be trusted with anything of significance. Instead, we are told we should be grateful for the broad shoulders and superior influence being part of the UK allows.

    HMG has demanded control over the Covid19 response on the basis that it has "national" implications.

    They wanted the job. They got the job. They made a pig's ar*e of the job.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corky Smeek View Post
    I'll give you one reason.

    You and all the others of a BritNat persuasion are constantly telling us how Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to be trusted with anything of significance. Instead, we are told we should be grateful for the broad shoulders and superior influence being part of the UK allows.

    HMG has demanded control over the Covid19 response on the basis that it has "national" implications.

    They wanted the job. They got the job. They made a pig's ar*e of the job.
    To my knowledge no one apart from yourself has used that silly 'Wings over Scotland' phrase.

    I accept that every government (including Scotlands) will make mistakes. I wont be trying to hang any of them out to dry though. This is a once in a generation (hopefully) event that all can learn from.

    I understand that your overriding motivation is independence and want to make the UK government look 'bad' at every occasion, refusing to accept that the Scottish government is involved too. That's your problem, not mine. I think I have a slightly more balance mind set in relation to this pandemic and wont be criticising the SNP's handling of this pandemic. No-one knew what was coming. We should all accept that. Politics can wait.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodfellers View Post
    To my knowledge no one apart from yourself has used that silly 'Wings over Scotland' phrase.
    Well, your knowledge is not very extensive then. Clearly you are not reading from the right sources.

    I am not an apologist for the SG. If they have made mistakes I will acknowledge them. The fact remains that HMG insisted on taking the lead and now has to bear the brunt of any blame. Also, I don't need "to make the UK government look 'bad' at every occasion, ..". They are doing a fantastic job all on their own and without any help from me.

    Of course the SG is involved. I have never said otherwise but it is having to operate within far stricter budgetary constraints than HMG and cannot hope to find a magic money tree the way Rishi Sunak did.

    Ok, no-one knew Covid19 was coming but everyone knew something like it was bound to happen sooner rather than later. That is why Exercise Cygnus was held. So, I will not accept the notion that this came out of the blue. HMG just chose to ignore the lessons from the exercise and now we are paying the price.

    Politics cannot wait. Politics is what caused us to be in this mess. Politics needs to find a way out for all our sakes.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddquine View Post
    If this thread was intended to be a " My God...isn't Boris Johnson just marvellous ...he has ended up in hospital in the ICU, ventilator at the ready with Coronavirus and is still, unlike 99% of others in the ICU, keeping up with Government affairs. He is so wonderful and such a blessing to us all" then it shouldn't have been on the Political Forum, but in General or simply as a post on the Coronoavirus thread which is already there. Then I wouldn't even have seen it.
    I think you know that's not why this thread was started.

    I was angry that night at the disgraceful comments circulating online, and the fact that all those who want Independence were being blamed, and all tarred with the same brush.

    I'm glad he survived, and hope he gets back on his feet soon, because he must then stand up and take responsibility for his action, or rather inaction, in this whole sorry catastrophe........and hope he and all his cronies have the guts to admit their failings and resign in disgrace.

    I won't hold my breath, as there are still some deluded individuals who still think he is doing a great job.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabbychic View Post
    I think you know that's not why this thread was started.

    I was angry that night at the disgraceful comments circulating online, and the fact that all those who want Independence were being blamed, and all tarred with the same brush.

    I'm glad he survived, and hope he gets back on his feet soon, because he must then stand up and take responsibility for his action, or rather inaction, in this whole sorry catastrophe........and hope he and all his cronies have the guts to admit their failings and resign in disgrace.

    I won't hold my breath, as there are still some deluded individuals who still think he is doing a great job.
    I do know....but I'm mostly on forums and FB and I block those on all sides of the divide who simply produce vitriol, sweary words and/or snide oneliners, so I didn't see much of the disgraceful comments, hence my less than enthusiastic response. (My FB ignore list is as long as the North Coast 500).

    Noticed an article in the New Statesman yesterday on my FB feed.." The eleven days that may have tragically cost the UK in the fight against coronavirus" . It was by a bloke who was an early coronavirus patient and he was not a happy bunny. I went onto his blog where I read it, and some others he has written about his experience...and why he is not a happy bunny. The blog post that was reproduced in the New Statesman is worth a read, as are some of the others, if you haven't already read it and it is at https://www.minghella.com/eleven-days-in-march/







  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddquine View Post
    I do know....but I'm mostly on forums and FB and I block those on all sides of the divide who simply produce vitriol, sweary words and/or snide oneliners, so I didn't see much of the disgraceful comments, hence my less than enthusiastic response. (My FB ignore list is as long as the North Coast 500).

    Noticed an article in the New Statesman yesterday on my FB feed.." The eleven days that may have tragically cost the UK in the fight against coronavirus" . It was by a bloke who was an early coronavirus patient and he was not a happy bunny. I went onto his blog where I read it, and some others he has written about his experience...and why he is not a happy bunny. The blog post that was reproduced in the New Statesman is worth a read, as are some of the others, if you haven't already read it and it is at https://www.minghella.com/eleven-days-in-march/
    Makes interesting reading and makes you wonder just how many others this has happened to. What I do find disturbing though, are many of the comments. What planet are these people on?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabbychic View Post
    Makes interesting reading and makes you wonder just how many others this has happened to. What I do find disturbing though, are many of the comments. What planet are these people on?
    Probably the same planet as the incompetent ignorant nincompoop PM who finally showed up on TV yesterday telling us "We have so far succeeded in the first and most important task we set ourselves as a nation. To avoid the tragedy that engulfed other parts of the world." but that tragedy we avoided wasn't unnecessary or high levels of deaths, as he went on to say " Because at no stage has our NHS been overwhelmed.No patient went without a ventilator. No patient was deprived of intensive care."

    The tragedy isn't that we aren't overwhelming our NHS...the tragedy is that we aren't.....because if we were, then fewer might have died. The tragedy is that the NHS has been so underfunded and ill-prepared to handle a crisis of this proportion, that steps had to be taken to ensure it didn't become overwhelmed...like only treating people we thought we could save, and leaving the rest to die in care homes and at home without even testing them (in case they had to go to hospital, overwhelm our NHS, and be counted in the figures for coronavirus linked deaths, one wonders?)

    The real tragedy is that our Government sat on its hands, watched the world imploding and did sod all about it until it was too late, in order to protect the economy/the money in their pockets...and then went into it half-heartedly, to this day still letting people into the country without checks...welcoming them into a country without adequate protective gear for all who need it, or enough testing kits to trace and combat spread, and therefore quite probably importing more of the virus.

    And the biggest tragedy of all is that people will believe the bull manure emanating from the mouth of the great god Boris!

  20. #60

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    Believe it or not....All Countries dealt with it badly, some worse than others.
    New Zealand is likely the most successful!
    One can blame the WHO, and the fact that to be prepared for anything like this costs megabucks!
    Do u know that the N95 masks and the gloves have a 2 year shelf life! Then they have to be replaced....Do you know the cost of equipping Emergency Measures with said equipment.
    And the people who the Govt’s choose to put on the Front Lines usually have No Experience in Crises Management.
    And do you trust every Country to tell the truth about their problems. And the list goes on.
    It is said ‘Hindsight is 20/20‘.
    I have been involved in Emergency Measures....it ‘ain’t easy’!
    ******And every Country brought people back into the Country and no, they were not checked, because it would be impossible to do it!
    OR......they could have left them where they were to likely die!
    Trust me.....It’s an Impossible Situation!
    Last edited by The Horseman; 02-May-20 at 00:46.

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