Scotland and the EU

[Fulmar]

You have got me completely wrong but there it is. Actually, I am genuinely interested in true answers and not at all in stupid point scoring which is all you seem to go in for. I actually thought (silly me) that after you highlighted the above, you might have given an answer but no. I could not care less what colour any passport might be nor where it is printed.
Here's my position and no doubt you'll just come back with your usual.
1. If there is a genuine and majority desire from the Scottish public, proved by consistent polls to have indyref 2 now or whenever, then I have no problem with that. I do think that in that case, it should be held but as yet, I've not seen the evidence for that.
2. If and when indyref 2 is held and the majority vote is in favour of independence then so be it. That is democracy and I will accept that result. I may not like it much and perhaps I'll be worried but it will be democratic in that case.
3, Gronnuck said in another place ''Given the situation we’re now in, what positivity for Scotland do you see in Boris Johnston, the Conservatives and the current Westminster government''?
I did not answer but no, none whatsoever. I've never voted Tory and never will and that's my dilemma. It is wrong that Scotland is governed by a party in Westminster that the people do not support but it does not necessarily follow for me that the default position is to break away from the Union with all the ensuing economic uncertainty and chaos and that is what, in my view, there will be. Many people in the rest of the UK are miserable about that too and actually, the Tories (like the SNP) have the MPs but not the majority of those who cast a vote. Things will change at Westminster too- they have done so many times in my lifetime and they will change again. I await the outcome of the much more democratic Scottish elections that are to be held next year with interest.
As it happens and despite everything, I absolutely am proud of being a citizen of Scotland and of the UK. I respect the Queen too who has served the UK all her life. There are many worse places to be and if it is so awful how come countless numbers of poor migrant people are risking their lives to get here each and every day.
4. I don't consider it unreasonable to want answers to fundamental questions that will absolutely affect me and the fact that you poor scorn on such things makes me extremely wary of you and your views. And there will be countless thousands of others like me out there who remain to be convinced.

[Corky Smeek]

OK. Well, I did reply to your point on passports. I hope that what I said answers it.

In so far as evidence justifying IndyRef2 goes there is quite a bit. Firstly, the polls show that the country is split roughly 50:50 on the issue. It is now well over 5 years since IndyRef1 yet roughly 50% of the Scottish population are still saying they favour independence. That figure of 50% represents an increase on the IndyRef1 result with a corresponding decrease on the No side. Any situation where half the population of a country say they favour something but are constantly told to forget about it is not sustainable in the long term. The aspirations of that group must be addressed in some form or another. Westminster and Unionists telling Indy-minded people that just because a vote was held 5 years ago the issue is decided does not satisfy those aspirations. All that type of approach does is drive home to many Scots that Westminster is not listening and that Scotland's issues are not deemed important, in a UK context, or indeed properly understood by the Westminster metropolitan elite.
Even when the SNP had 56 MPs, Westminster appeared unable to adjust to the message they had been given. The childish antics of hordes of Tory MPs theatrically walking out of the HoC when Ian Blackford stands up to speak just reinforces the view that Parliament neither understands, respects nor cares about the Scottish electorate.
The SNP have been in power in Holyrood since 2007. They have been the largest Scottish party at Westminster at the last 3 GE's. Despite this, plenty of people, on here and elsewhere, seem reluctant to accept that the Scottish people are saying something different to people in other parts of the UK. The Brexit result is just one, very significant, way that has illustrated this. Many people feel very strongly that the votes cast by people in Scotland just don't matter.
These are but a few of the reasons why support for independence has grown since IndyRef1 and why something needs to be done. Had the various promises of mid-late September 2014 been kept then perhaps we would be in a different situation. But they weren't and we are not. We are here, in early 2020 staring Brexit in the face despite what Ruth Davidson said (see poster in opening post).

If/when IndyRef2 is held and the vote goes the way of Yes then sure, lots of people will be worried. That is completely understandable and their concerns must be addressed. But, nothing is ever achieved without taking risks and I know that mistakes will be made along the way. But they will be our mistakes and it will be up to us to fix them and to set our own national priorities. Like you I have never voted Tory in my life and never intend to. However, if an independent Scotland votes for a Scottish Tory government then I will accept that fact graciously. I shall console myself with the knowledge that it was the choice of the Scottish people; not the choice of people in a different country who put our government in power.

It is not unreasonable to ask for answers to fundamental questions. The problem with providing them on a public forum is that it just invites a pile-on from some of the more unruly elements. I feel sure this response will also do just that. What I find difficult to accept, however, is the assertion by some that the Scottish Government has not done enough to provide answers. Over the last 7 years or so huge tomes have been produced in an attempt to allay fears and answer questions. All of this literature is freely available to read/download and its volume is in stark contrast to the amount produced by UKG to prepare us all for Brexit.

We'll see how this one goes. If, as I suspect, the usual suspects respond in the usual way then don't say I didn't warn you!

[orkneycadian]

2. If and when indyref 2 is held and the majority vote is in favour of independence then so be it. That is democracy and I will accept that result. I may not like it much and perhaps I'll be worried but it will be democratic in that case.

And don't forget, by the SNP / seperatist precedent, that there would need to be a majority in all counting areas in Scotland, not just Scotland overall. If just one counting area votes no, then thats is, status quo, as we cannot have one (or more) part(s) of Scotland being dragged out of the UK against their will. That's the rules the SNP wanted for the Independence referendum in 2016.