Coronavirus

[Corky Smeek]

Link to the article in today's Sunday Times for those who have not read it:- https://archive.is/20200418182037/ht...ster-hq3b9tlgh

[Corky Smeek]

@Goodfellers. You have asked a couple of times why HMG is getting all the blame during the current crisis despite health being a devolved issue. I came across it whilst reading your least favourite blogger's Twitter feed. It's a brief analysis of the politics of Covid19.

It is pretty neutral in content - no political point scoring. I promise.

https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-12735

[Goodfellers]

@Goodfellers. You have asked a couple of times why HMG is getting all the blame during the current crisis despite health being a devolved issue. I came across it whilst reading your least favourite blogger's Twitter feed. It's a brief analysis of the politics of Covid19.

It is pretty neutral in content - no political point scoring. I promise.

https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-12735

Good to see the report saying that Scotlands government should shoulder some of the criticism . I am still not ready to 'blame' anyone.

If a similar situation happens again in my lifetime, then I will be ready to blame whoever, as governments now have some idea of what a pandemic involves and more importantly, how the public will behave. The public don't want liberty restricted any longer than it has to be, so lock us up too early and people start to ignore the advice, leave it too late and many more get infected. Difficult job to get right.

Paper exercises are all well and good, but until 'it' actually happens, you have no real idea of how things will play out. As I said earlier all the experts will crawl out of the woodwork and with the benefit of hindsight tell everyone where they went wrong. Everyone can be an expert after the event.

[Fulmar]

I think that the future analysis and enquiry needs to be in all ways constructive to prevent the same mistakes being repeated. One thing early on struck me about what one of the experts said re stocking up with ventilators and whether that should have been done sooner and that was, had they done that, these would have been sitting about in store rooms unused and not needed having cost a lot to buy. I think that one of the problems is that any government machine is basically too clunky and not nimble enough on its feet to respond quickly enough. Also, at the end of the day, they have said time and time again that they were being guided by scientific advice as hardly any of them were experts in pandemics or even medicine before this happened. Good on the small firms anyway who haven't waited for an official response from government but have gone ahead and made gowns to supply their local areas.

[Shabbychic]

Good to see the report saying that Scotlands government should shoulder some of the criticism . I am still not ready to 'blame' anyone.

If a similar situation happens again in my lifetime, then I will be ready to blame whoever, as governments now have some idea of what a pandemic involves and more importantly, how the public will behave. The public don't want liberty restricted any longer than it has to be, so lock us up too early and people start to ignore the advice, leave it too late and many more get infected. Difficult job to get right.

Paper exercises are all well and good, but until 'it' actually happens, you have no real idea of how things will play out. As I said earlier all the experts will crawl out of the woodwork and with the benefit of hindsight tell everyone where they went wrong. Everyone can be an expert after the event.

I don't 100% agree with https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-12735 but that is another issue.


This is not the first time a pandemic has occurred. There is plenty documentation on the plague in 1665 and the Spanish Flu in 1918, so there is information on how a pandemic evolves and how the public will behave. These things haven't changed that much, except we should be wiser and better equipped nowadays. Have you read Daniel Defoe's A Journal of the Plague Year, for example? Yes, it is fiction, and I am not a big fan of Mr Defoe, but he did put a bit of research into it, and in this instance it is very apt reading at this time. There are also many books about the Spanish Flu, and how when people came out of quarantine too early, the second wave killed far more than the original outbreak.


What about Exercise Cygnus carried out in 2016? Why was this failure hushed up and recommendations ignored?


So please, don't make excuses for the Government's mishandling of this whole sorry mess.


Why, for example, are British companies sending vital supplies and equipment abroad when it is urgently needed here? I'll tell you why. Because when these companies offered these items to the UK Government, they were either ignored or turned down, because they weren't part of the "Crony Network".....and that in a nutshell is what this Government is all about.


I know you are a big Tory fan, but can you honestly say, hand on heart, that this lot in Government today, are anything like the Real Conservatives from the past? They may have the same title, but I think that is where the comparison ends, and it is maybe time Real Conservatives admitted this, and get shot of the lot of them.

[Shabbychic]

One thing early on struck me about what one of the experts? said re stocking up with ventilators and whether that should have been done sooner and that was, had they done that, these would have been sitting about in store rooms unused and not needed having cost a lot to buy.

Isn't that what Trident does.......and what does it cost? I think I would rather have spare ventilators any day.

[Fulmar]

Absolutely agree about Trident.

[Goodfellers]

Isn't that what Trident does.......and what does it cost? I think I would rather have spare ventilators any day.

I'm sure if you saw Russian marines landing on Thurso beach, you would wish we had Trident (assuming we no longer had it).

Trident is about the only thing keeping them at bay. It only takes a few rich Russians in London (or Helmsdale) to say they feel threatened and Putin will use that as an excuse to invade. Ask the citizens of Crimea.

I'm sure the government have planned (on paper) for this scenario. If we had no deterrent, the population would be screaming " you've planned for this, where are all our military and why did you get rid of our nuclear deterrent?"

[Goodfellers]

So please, don't make excuses for the Government's mishandling of this whole sorry mess.

I'm not sure I've made excuses for any government. I'm playing the waiting game.

And you are right, I would rather have Mrs T over Mrs May or Boris any day.

[Shabbychic]

I'm sure if you saw Russian marines landing on Thurso beach, you would wish we had Trident (assuming we no longer had it).

Trident is about the only thing keeping them at bay. It only takes a few rich Russians in London (or Helmsdale) to say they feel threatened and Putin will use that as an excuse to invade. Ask the citizens of Crimea.

I'm sure the government have planned (on paper) for this scenario. If we had no deterrent, the population would be screaming " you've planned for this, where are all our military and why did you get rid of our nuclear deterrent?"

So the Russians are planning on invading Thurso Beach? Personally, I think they would be better heading for Dunnet Beach, where they could maybe slip in unnoticed. Then they could head off to Wick for a wee fish supper.....and onward lads to the Berriedales. Then they can nip in for a wee cuppa Russian tea with their friends in Helmsdale, or perchance a wee Voddie.....and maybe even stay the night. (I think this pal has a big hoose)


Next morning, after a quick run round the garden to limber/sober up, and a full Scottish breakfast, Captain Vladimir (who actually spent the night in Portgower) said "right boys, where to today?" "Let's invade the Irn Bru factory" they all cry.......so, after a quick round of golf in Golspie....


But, as you say....The government will have planned (on paper) for this scenario, and will be fully prepared.


Why on earth would Russia decide to invade Scotland? What have we ever done to them? Why haven't they invaded all the other countries in the world with no nuclear weapons? (unless they really are after oor Irn Bru)

[Goodfellers]

Might be a year or two off, but we have water in abundance.....You never know, some foreign power may want it! As you say, what else have we got that the world wants. I'm sure Corky listed water and wind in an earlier thread about what Scotland has an abundance of

https://www.newsweek.com/2015/05/01/...er-324328.html

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/...will-be-fought

[Neil Howie]

Please could you move your political posts to a different thread?

[Neil Howie]

Back on 28 March 2020 I posted that there were 51 doctors who died of coronavirus in Italy. Since then we have seen numbers increase in Italy, reaching 100 by 9 April 2020.

And if you think about it the number is pretty unusual as these are a group of people who look after their health. They have the lowest mortality rate by profession.

So what is it about the coronavirus that is killing this group of professionals?

PPE certainly seems to be part of this and as far as I can tell this is because the PEE reduces the viral load at the point of contact with a patient. It's possible that the amount of virus overwhelms the body. Is this alone the reason? Is it possible that being exposed to multiple strains of virus causes this? It's possible that there is a genetic susceptibility due to ethnic grounds but the evidence is not great Lancet

On 27 March 2020 the New York Times reported on an increase in heart attacks, and that a recent study in China stated:

The study, led by Dr. Zhibing Lu at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University, found that 20 percent of patients hospitalized with Covid-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus, had some evidence of heart damage.
Many were not known to have underlying heart disease. But they often had abnormal electrocardiograms, like the patient in Brooklyn, in addition to elevated troponin levels, which sometimes soared to levels seen in patients with heart attacks.

The figures reported by NBC state:

From March 30 to April 5, 2019, there were an average of 69 calls a day for cardiac patients and 26 deaths, meaning 38 percent of the calls.
For March 30 to April 5, 2020 — the week ending Sunday — cardiac calls averaged 284 a day, with 200 deaths a day. Seventy-two percent of the calls ended in death.

So, reading a recent Swiss study :

Coronavirus attacks lining of blood vessels all over the body, Swiss study finds
Researcher says virus enters ‘defence line’ and causes circulation problems, which can lead to multiple organ failure

I would suggest that there is a different line of attack for the virus, and maybe this is at fault?

[The Horseman]

I would not characterize ‘The Medical Profession’ smarter that the ‘average joe’!
Familiarity breeds contempt!
In North America, 60 Doctors held a Curling Bonspiel in March, and half are now down with the Virus!
And Drs in Nursing Homes/Elder care are also being wiped out.
And now reported, there are at least 21 new ‘strains/mutations.
Its Gonna take a while to figure this out.

[Shabbychic]

Please could you move your political posts to a different thread?

So, it's ok to talk about toilet rolls, cruise ships, horse racing, and various other things that have cropped up on this thread, including politics, but suddenly, you have decided, there will be no more politics? Well, I hate to tell you, but the situation regarding Coronavirus is very political, whether you like it or not, so why don't you just ignore that aspect of the thread, since it obviously upsets you, and carry on regardless with your insightful presentations?

[The Horseman]

So, it's ok to talk about toilet rolls, cruise ships, horse racing, and various other things that have cropped up on this thread, including politics, but suddenly, you have decided, there will be no more politics? Well, I hate to tell you, but the situation regarding Coronavirus is very political, whether you like it or not, so why don't you just ignore that aspect of the thread, since it obviously upsets you, and carry on regardless with your insightful presentations?

You are correct....
I know from living in Canada, part of North America, New Zealand etc etc., the problems are all the same.
The Politics, the ‘Lack of everything’ Urgently needed, the death of Seniors/long term care homes...
We are all in the same boat!
And now the different Strains/ Mutations of this Virus, is complicating issues to the limit if our imagination!
I suppose this is a ‘wake up’ call to The World.
Hopefully......We will be a changed people when we survive this.

[Neil Howie]

So, it's ok to talk about toilet rolls, cruise ships, horse racing, and various other things that have cropped up on this thread, including politics, but suddenly, you have decided, there will be no more politics? Well, I hate to tell you, but the situation regarding Coronavirus is very political, whether you like it or not, so why don't you just ignore that aspect of the thread, since it obviously upsets you, and carry on regardless with your insightful presentations?

I followed the political points up to where it drifted off topic, with Russians invading Scrabster and the world water supply, hence my polite request.

[Corky Smeek]

Financial Times estimates current UK death toll to be 41,000.

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-...3-e239799fa6ab

[The Horseman]

Financial Times estimates current UK death toll to be 41,000.

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-...3-e239799fa6ab

There is no ‘World Wide’ standard for how to classify if a death is caused by The Virus.....so one gets ‘uneven stats’!

[Shabbychic]

I followed the political points up to where it drifted off topic, with Russians invading Scrabster and the world water supply, hence my polite request.

Sorry about that, but I think you'll find most threads on most forums are prone to various tangential deviations now and again, before getting back on track, and I'm afraid that's what happened in this instance. Some of us don't take ourselves too seriously, nor believe our contribution on a forum can change the outcome of critical life events, although sometimes I find, too much information in certain areas, can actually scare people further.