Coronavirus

[Fulmar]

Well, I know of people who have had CT scans at Caithness General- maybe the ones you are referring to were not urgent, I do not know, obviously.

[orkneycadian]

These farcemask manufacturers seem to have a lot to answer for, especially in France, where they are mandatory in so many more places than in the UK. But despite the French dutifully wearing their face nappies, the rate of "cases" continues to rise;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54137319

Coronavirus: Cases in France leap past 10,000 a day

Are Trading Standards aware of all these farcemasks that are being sold that appear to be not working properly? Is there any logical explanation as to why the rate of cases, and even the rise in cases seems to be unaffected by the introduction of rules mandating farcemask wearing? Why are the farcemasks not doing anything about the rate of deaths from "normal flu" and pneumonia, which are now running at 10 times the rate of deaths "with" Conoravirus?

So many questions, so few answers.....

[ecb]

Story about treatment such as fillings aren't allowed to be done by dentists on the NHS, but are available at the same dentists if the patient goes as a private patient but at a much higher price, with affordability issues for less well off patients:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-fife-54178544

[orkneycadian]

Jeremy Vine squirming quite badly there between 1230 and 1300 when so many of his callers were from Sweden telling him that its been largely business as usual there, no lockdown, no farcemasks, no social distancing, and they have a low pro rata there than the UK. Jeremy trying to hold up the other side of the argument, suggesting that Sweden has less people than the UK, that they "automatically social distance", etc, only for the British expats in Sweden to pull him up on it and tell him that's not the case. No wonder he was so pleased to get the Undertones on and the callers in Sweden off.....

And the dentist story highlighted by ecb above. Just shows how much of a scam this all is. Orkney Islands Council have all but stopped providing services, blaming conoravirus.

[orkneycadian]

So Wales introduces compulsory farcemask wearing in shops. Rather than the number of cases in Wales falling as a result, they go up.

Does anyone know how that works?

[Alrock]

Interesting...

Face masks may be inadvertently giving people Covid-19 immunity and making them get less sick from the virus, academics have suggested in one of the most respected medical journals in the world.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers

[Fulmar]

Really good news!

[orkneycadian]

Interesting article there Alrock. Just a shame it doesn't contain the text you have quoted.

[Alrock]

Interesting article there Alrock. Just a shame it doesn't contain the text you have quoted.

Sorry... Fixed post with correct link now.

[Neil Howie]

Jeremy Vine squirming quite badly there between 1230 and 1300 when so many of his callers were from Sweden telling him that its been largely business as usual there, no lockdown, no farcemasks, no social distancing, and they have a low pro rata there than the UK. Jeremy trying to hold up the other side of the argument, suggesting that Sweden has less people than the UK, that they "automatically social distance", etc, only for the British expats in Sweden to pull him up on it and tell him that's not the case. No wonder he was so pleased to get the Undertones on and the callers in Sweden off.....

And the dentist story highlighted by ecb above. Just shows how much of a scam this all is. Orkney Islands Council have all but stopped providing services, blaming conoravirus.

What's your point? Take the foot completely off the break and end up like America?

You suggest Sweden is some how not social distancing but haven't mentioned that the official guidelines is to social distance and that people were banned from going to care homes. Some numbers - total deaths:
Sweden 5,865

Norway 567

Denmark 638

[orkneycadian]

Some more numbers - From Worldometers.

Sweden - Deaths per 1M population = 580
UK - Deaths per 1M population = 615

And

Sweden = No lockdown, economically OK, schools and workplaces stayed open throughout, no looming unemployment crisis, no farcemasks, etc
UK = Lockdowns galore, economically trashed, schools closed, businesses and jobs on the scrapheap, increasing use of farcemasks with no effect

Jeremy Vine was trying to make the same point as Neil, but was getting corrected by callers from Sweden.

"Ah but!" said Jeremy, "in Sweden they don't have folk going on the lash like in the UK and getting all cuddly at closing time!"
"Wrong" said the Swedish callers, "Folk in Sweden like a bevvy as much as the Brits"

"Ah but!" said Jeremy, "in Sweden they naturally social distance!"
"Wrong", said the callers, "Swedes have not been doing any social distancing"

Jeremy - "Er, I think I'll play some Undertones......"

p.s. One of Jeremy's callers said that even the news in Sweden is now largely Conoravirus free and they are onto more pressing matters.

[orkneycadian]

Interesting...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers

Another interesting link there Alrock. Thank you for posting.

The theory there seems to basically be herd (natural) immunity, with a suggestion that the viral load can be controlled by a farcemask. In order to get some of that viral load, to subsequently develop that herd (natural) immunity, the person needs some exposure to the virus. Sitting at home "shielding" in a farcemask, or wearing a farcemask whilst the sole occupant of a car (there are plenty do it....) is not going to bring on that immunity unfortunately.

In the earlier incarnation of this virus, it appeared that 85% of people who had it were not aware of it. Not sure what the current level of that is. So 85% of people could happily take a "full viral load", bearing in mind back then there were no lockdowns, social distancing, farcemasks etc, and not exhibit any symptoms. Those 85% don't / didn't need any throttling of their viral load to obtain immunity. In fact, for 85% of the population, viral load throttling may actually be what tips the balance towards failing to get enough virus for that immunity to develop.

Again it seems to point to letting the healthy out, and shielding the vulnerable.

My suggestion is therefore anyone who thinks that Conoravirus is a threat to them should stay out of the way in their houses, wrapped from head to toe in farcemask material, which they spray with 70% alcohol every hour. They should stay well away from their net curtains, which means no looking out the window to see what the healthy neighbours are up to. Alas, there will be no furlough payments this time, so they'll need to live off their savings. The rest of us will get on with life as normal, like the Swedes. When the shielders feel silly enough, they can emerge from their shielding, realising that they are the ones now that need the vaccines, not just for Conoravirus, but just about everything else as well due to their immune systems having given up and gone to sleep. The rest of us will be herd immune.

[Shabbychic]

Some more numbers - From Worldometers.

Sweden - Deaths per 1M population = 580
UK - Deaths per 1M population = 615

And

Sweden = No lockdown, economically OK, schools and workplaces stayed open throughout, no looming unemployment crisis, no farcemasks, etc
UK = Lockdowns galore, economically trashed, schools closed, businesses and jobs on the scrapheap, increasing use of farcemasks with no effect

Jeremy Vine was trying to make the same point as Neil, but was getting corrected by callers from Sweden.

"Ah but!" said Jeremy, "in Sweden they don't have folk going on the lash like in the UK and getting all cuddly at closing time!"
"Wrong" said the Swedish callers, "Folk in Sweden like a bevvy as much as the Brits"

"Ah but!" said Jeremy, "in Sweden they naturally social distance!"
"Wrong", said the callers, "Swedes have not been doing any social distancing"

Jeremy - "Er, I think I'll play some Undertones......"

p.s. One of Jeremy's callers said that even the news in Sweden is now largely Conoravirus free and they are onto more pressing matters.

Since I don't watch things like Jeremy Vine, I can't argue with your statement, But this article has a slightly different take on it.

[orkneycadian]

I see Convid-19, as a "cause" of death (jury is out on this posting as to whether or not this is death by Convid-19 or death with Convid-19) in England in August, according to the ONS, was a whopping 24th in the "league table" of causes of death.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...les/august2020

As well as being behind;

Dementia / Alzheimers
Heart disease
Lung cancer
Cerebrovascular disease
Lower respiratory disease
Colon cancer
"something else"
Flu and pneumonia
Lymphatic cancer
Prostate cancer

Which make up the "top 10", Convid-19 doesn't even make it into the top 20, let alone the top 10. At least in Wales, it makes it into the top 20, at position 19.

Glad to see we are putting so much effort into dealing with a cause of / with death that's so far down the list. We must be doing amazing things by comparison to deal with things like prostate and colon cancers, given their much higher prevalence.

But still gobsmacked that flu and pneumonia are still in the top 10, despite the wearing of farcemasks. Surely they should be well down the list by now?

[orkneycadian]

If Conoravirus becomes so deadly at 10pm, can't we simply outsmart it by putting the clocks back 3 hours?

[orkneycadian]

Seems that the Conoravirus continues to outsmart the policy makers, especially in Wales;

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/h...er-20-18983902

Coronavirus infection rates, cases and deaths for all parts of Wales on Wednesday, September 23

"Wales has had 389 new coronavirus cases. There were only more new cases in a single day once before, on April 9"



There they were with no farcemasks and increasing numbers of cases. So they thought that to reverse the rise, they would start wearing farcemasks. And lo, not only did the rate of new cases fail to fall, they have continued to rise, by an ever increasing number.

You would think that even the medical boffins would conclude "Hmmmm, that didn't work worth a snuff - We might as well drop that and try something else"

Gives absolutely no confidence in vaccine development. I can see it now......

"We tried injecting the hamsters with sample no 43F of the trial vaccine, boss. It didn't work, and half the hamsters died within 10 minutes of the jab"

"Righto, keep 43F in the mix. Now try injecting the hamsters with a mix of 43F and 43G and see what happens. But whatever you do, keep the 43F going"

"But boss, 43F didnt work and made things worse!"

"Keep up the good work troops, your country is counting on you - Smithers, can you order some more 43F please? We can't go running low on it."

[Fulmar]

One more try for you who are so obsessed with facemasks. It is clear to most people that the infection rate rise is not BECAUSE (responsible) people are wearing facemasks but because the irresponsible have been flouting social distancing and restrictions and gathering in situations (while not wearing them, of course) that has allowed the virus to spread. If you want evidence of that, look no further than the outbreaks in the universities. Look at any report from any city or town where a member of the public in the street has been interviewed and the words lately have been the same ''people are not bothering any more''. People know that the irresponsible few have been doing what they shouldn't have and what the responsible majority have avoided doing to the best of their ability. This virus IS highly infectious and contagious. You should humble yourself and talk to someone/medic who has actually seen it and dealt with it on the frontline and who is now braced for further horrors in the hospitals or to someone who has been affected by it and is struggling to recover though I doubt that anything will penetrate your closed mind on this.
I realise I should not have 'shouted' up there (if that is what it is called) but I find your dismissive, contemptuous attitude hard to take. My nurse daughter in London was deployed to the front line from her regular nursing job during the initial outbreak onto a Covid ward and nursed patients, some of whom died. They didn't die of other things, they died from this virus. She did a 14 hour shift and didn't have time to take her breaks, they were so busy. She went home, went straight to bed and was back in again at 7am the next morning. That's what it was like and you give the lie and rubbish all of it.

[orkneycadian]

Farcemasks are a good yardstick in that they are / were claimed to be so outstandingly effective. And Wales is a further good yardstick in that there is good evidence of no farcemasks, then farcemasks.

Taking each in turn.

Remember all the graphics telling us how effective farcemasks are meant to be? The ones where its suggested that if neither of 2 people wear a mask, then each is in sneeze range, if 1 wears a mask, then 1 is in sneeze range of the other, but not vice versa, and if both are wearing masks, they can both sneeze to their hearts content, and nothing will go anywhere. And then there was the analogy that no masks was the same as someone peeing on your bare leg. If you wore trousers, you would still get a wet leg, but if you both wore trousers, only the pee'er would get a wet leg. The graphics showed that wearing farcemasks was so effective that there was no excuse not to wear one. And this before they even became mandatory.

Then take Wales. Before the introduction of compulsory farcemasks, pubs were open, folk were eating out to help out, going back to work, the lot. Then, in a very singular change, farcemask wearing was mandated. So within 2 weeks or so of that, and changes can only really be down to the efficacy, or lack of as the case may be, or farcemasks. Of course, from the first analysis above, we are told that they work so unbelievably well, that you would have no hesitation in betting your life that Wales introducing farcemasks would have nothing other than a cliff edge in "cases", with them almost stopping overnight.

But no. Rather than that, the cases rise. Whats going on?

There is no doubt that more folk in Wales are wearing farcemasks. Sure, there will be ones that don't or won't. But lets just say that before the compulsion, that 10% of Welsh shoppers wore farcemasks and after compulsion 80% do. Even if the latter is not 100%, then the step change in wearing of farcemasks before and after compulsion is significantly upwards. But yet, the rate of cases has not fallen.

That is why these 2 variables are so interesting, and the even of farcemask compulsion being introduced in Wales is so relevant. If ever there was a test for them, with before and after metrics, that was it. And they have failed. Miserably.

[orkneycadian]

Sweden 5,865

Norway 567

Denmark 638

So Sweden, you can travel to and from without quarantining at the moment (UK Govt advice, heavens knows what Krankie is prescribing.....)

Norway too

But on Saturday Denmark becomes a country which if you come to the UK from, you will need to quarantine.

So much for Sweden doing so much worse than its neighbours.

[Fulmar]

You just don't get it do you. The cases have risen lately because people have not been complying with the rules, the most important of which are the social distancing and hand washing. (Face masks were only ever part of the mix and I have seen no report in all this time that ever suggested otherwise- that they might help and were worth having as part of the measures). Prior to this, as we all know, the numbers dropped as we came through the initial peak and then people were allowed and even encouraged to start mixing again (with, actually, no requirement for facemasks in ordinary social situations) at a time when the virus had not gone but was very much still out there. Result, a few weeks later, an inevitable rise in cases that has now accelerated so much as to cause real concern, just when we are entering the flu season and that will have a big impact too. And lets not forget that children are a big spreader of flu but not of Covid. You may not care and clearly you don't give a damn but I do not want to see the situation repeated in the hospitals again with other equally important services shut down simply because the NHS cannot turn away the critically ill. However, you will have this thread to yourself now as I'm done with it for the time being.