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Thread: Be afraid Scotland; be very afraid.

  1. #41

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    The link below is to an item taken from the BBC's website this morning. In it Ex-MPs discuss the impact that abuse (on-line and off-line) has had on their mental health.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/electi...-mental-health

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by aqua View Post
    A friend suggested that Corky is Alex Salmond in real life.
    An interesting concept. But I suspect that Mr Salmond will have bigger things than 'E Org to occupy him this week, what with his hearing over 2 charges of attempted rape, 9 charges of sexual assault and 2 charges of indecent assault.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-sco...itics-50122740

  3. #43

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    Correction, seems he still has time for a bit of fun on E Org

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  4. #44

  5. #45

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    Wow - What a list of charges.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-50486713

    Concerns me deeply that until these allegations are disproven (and that sounds a very tall order), this man is still on the loose. No wonder Scotland should be afraid, very afraid. But I guess the courts are too busy trying to block democracy.

  6. #46

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    The Tories have not held a majority of Scottish seats since 1955. Despite that we have endured decades of rule by Tory governments we neither wanted nor elected.
    But, it looks like we are going to be lumbered with them once more regardless of how we in Scotland vote. If they do win a majority in the UK then we will face a hard Brexit (against the wishes of the Scottish electorate) and a right wing government intent upon limiting, if not eradicating, the powers of the Scottish Parliament. Holyrood is the only buffer we have against the excesses of Tory governments and it is vital we send a clear message that Scotland will not be treated like a vassal state. We cannot allow a future Tory government to limit/dissolve the Scottish parliament, particularly after all the promises made after Indyref I about great rafts of new powers coming our way.

    So with all of that in mind, it is interesting to note the value of donations made to political parties in the last couple of weeks. The following article may be found on the BBC's website at:-
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50508009

    One graphic from the article stands out (click to enlarge the image). This is why the Tories are going to win. This is why the Tories can play fast and loose with the truth during election campaigns. They have the money and the power to "block democracy".

    Be afraid Scotland, be very afraid, for the future under a Johnson government doesn't bear thinking about.



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  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    This is what stands out the most to me...

    "Another Tory donor, Lubov Chernukhin, the wife of a former minister for Russian President Vladimir Putin, gave £200,000 in the same period."
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by orkneycadian View Post
    Wow - What a list of charges.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-50486713

    Concerns me deeply that until these allegations are disproven (and that sounds a very tall order), this man is still on the loose. No wonder Scotland should be afraid, very afraid. But I guess the courts are too busy trying to block democracy.
    At least England and Wales seems to be waking up to the risks their citizens are under by allowing suspected and alleged sexual offenders to remain on the loose;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50563533

  9. #49

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    Yet another reason for Scotland to be very afraid. Jackson Carlaw, interim Tory leader in Scotland has changed his mind. We Scots are not allowed to change our minds though, but JC is.

    Despite campaigning for a Remain vote in the EU Ref he now says he would campaign for Leave. What could have changed his mind? Might it have anything to do with a change in direction of the political wind over recent months? In the space of no time at all this once pro-Remain; anti-Boris Johnston Tory has miraculously turned into anti-Remain and pro-Boris Johnston. Only a matter of a few short months ago he was saying Johnston was not fit to be PM. Now all of a sudden, when Johnston has the keys to No.10 and is effectively Carlaw's boss he U-turns and falls into line. "Principals", he doesn't know the meaning of the word.

    Of course Carlaw is just a hypocrite. He is allowed to do a 180º for no reason other than self-advancement. Scottish voters on the other hand are not going to be allowed to change our minds on independence until 2054 at the earliest; if he gets his way. He is demanding all Tory candidates sign a pledge to rule it out for another 34 years. Carlaw is currently 60 years old. What right has he to attempt to curtail democracy beyond his own (likely) lifespan? Brexit means circumstances have changed dramatically since 2014 and the Scottish electorate should be given another say on independence if they want it. It is not for the leader of a party with no mandate in Scotland to decide our consitutional future for the next 34 years. The Scottish people will decide it, make no mistake.

  10. #50

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    Just out of interest, how often do you (Corky) think we should hold indy refs? Assuming Scots keep voting to remain in the UK?

    If we gained independance and it turned out to be financial suicide, would we hold another referendum and hope the UK allows us back in? Or would it be up to the UK to hold a referendum to see if it wants us back.

    Up until a few months ago, most of the English side of my family were not really that aware of Nicola Sturgeon, now she is everywhere and I'm afraid most of them think she is a whining ungrateful person....I think an awful lot of English people feel the same so I'm not sure the UK would want us back.

    Be careful what you wish for.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodfellers View Post
    Just out of interest, how often do you (Corky) think we should hold indy refs? Assuming Scots keep voting to remain in the UK?

    If we gained independance and it turned out to be financial suicide, would we hold another referendum and hope the UK allows us back in? Or would it be up to the UK to hold a referendum to see if it wants us back.

    Up until a few months ago, most of the English side of my family were not really that aware of Nicola Sturgeon, now she is everywhere and I'm afraid most of them think she is a whining ungrateful person....I think an awful lot of English people feel the same so I'm not sure the UK would want us back.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    What an astonishing post. It's almost the perfect example of "The Scottish Cringe".

    If the Scottish electorate had not been lied to on a monumental scale during the IndyRef 1 campaign. If the promises in the now infamous vow had not all disappeared like a puff of smoke. If Scotland wasn't being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of Scottish voters. If Scotland wasn't routinely ignored by Westminster. If all those things hadn't happened I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in advocating IndyRef 2. But the fact is they did and we deserve another opportunity to have a say on our future. And, if the Scottish electorate decide they want another one at any point in the future is should be their choice; no-one else's. They should not have to go to Westminster to be "allowed" to have one.

    On your second point, let me turn that question round. If Scotland were currently independent do you seriously think we would vote to join the UK? Of course we wouldn't. Name me one country that has regretted gaining its independence and wanted to change its mind. And why would it be financial suicide? Tell me, why do you feel the Scottish people are unique in being incapable of running our own affairs? You really have to answer that question for your views to be given any credence. Almost every independent country of comparable size to Scotland is at an significant disadvantage compared to us in terms of natural resources; skilled workforce; geographical position and quality of our tertiary education. I have mentioned all of this (and more) to you in the past but you seem unwilling to confront the fact that we Scots might just be the same as every other race on the planet - perfectly capable of running our own affairs.

    If the English side of your family were not really aware of Nicola Sturgeon can you think of any reason why that might have been? Could it have anything to do with Scotland, and virtually anything that happens here, being ignored by the London/Salford-based main stream media. You might find that a lot of Scots identify strongly with the sentiments expressed in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhL57cjN8xY. I also find it astonishing that you claim she is unpopular south of the border. My experience has been that any time she has had UK-wide coverage the overwhelming view coming from social media is that she is an impressive speaker with a strong grasp of policy and who actually answers the questions. Indeed, after many of her UK-wide apearances, the most widely Googled question is "Can I vote for Nicola Sturgeon/SNP if I don't live in Scotland?".

    On your last point I know precisely what I am wishing for and do so safe in the knowledge that if we do make mistakes in an independent Scotland (which we will, I am sure) they will be our mistakes and we will fix them.

    I'm afraid that I find your views to be utterly defeatist. You appear to have no faith in the inhabitants of this country, whom I may remind you, are generally credited with creating the modern world - see AL Herman, "How Scots Invented The Modern World", 2001 (ISBN: 8601400490402). You may have no faith in the Scots but I certainly do and so I re-state your final point. Be careful what you wish for. Staying in the UK and outwith the EU is more likely to turn out to be financial suicide. I know a lot of Scots think the same and I'm not sure the EU would want the UK back. They would, however, be more than happy to see Scotland as an EU member.

  12. #52

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    The Greeks were once the most powerful nation....not anymore
    As were the Italians
    And the Egyptians
    As were the Macedonians, Assyrians and the Portugesse.

    Where are these civilisations now?

    As for the Scottish education system, get real https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50655504

    I've already pointed out "
    If Scotland wasn't being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of Scottish voters" is a completely false statement, yet you don't seem able to grasp that, fortunately NS does. There are over 4 million Scottish voters, 1.6 million voted to remain.

    I've pointed out before, pre gas and oil there was no appetite for independance...why was that? Remember, the world is changing fast, oil and gas are becoming very unfashionable.

    We will have to carry on disagreeing about Scotlands future.


  13. #53

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    Wow.

    Other countries were once powerful but aren't any more. Is that the best argument you can put forward? If it is then surely it applies to the UK - once powerful, now isolationist and inward looking. Probably best for it to stay in the EU wouldn't you say?

    On education, you should read before you leap into print. I quite specifically said "tertiary education".

    The majority of Scottish voters who voted in the EU ref voted Remain. Any attempt to suggest anything else is the case is just nonsense.

    I'm astonished to find that you find it astonishing that Westminster's squandering of oil and gas revenues led to an increase in demands for independence. What do you think drives people's political views? I'd have been amazed if it hadn't given Westminster's profligacy.

    As I said, you may have no faith in the Scottish people but I do.

    “Of all the small nations of this earth, perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind.” - Winston Churchill.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodfellers View Post
    "If Scotland wasn't being dragged out of the EU against the wishes of the majority of Scottish voters" is a completely false statement, yet you don't seem able to grasp that, fortunately NS does. There are over 4 million Scottish voters, 1.6 million voted to remain.
    And its very unlikely that any independence referendum will return a "Yes" from each and every vote counting area of Scotland. The SNP tell us that for a referendum to be valid, then each area must vote in favour, and if just one area votes against, then they are being dragged out, against their will, which is very very very bad, according to the High Priestess of Holyrood.

    So there is little point in having a referendum until there is no prospect of any single area of Scotland being dragged out of the UK against their will. And with Orkney polling 67.2% No back in the 2014 referendum, then a lot has to change before a Scotland wide referendum is likely to return a Yes vote in every single area of Scotland, Orkney included.

    Unless of course the SNP change their position on "being dragged out against will" and suddenly it becomes acceptable? They wouldn't do that surely? Would they? Not after all they have bleated on about dragging and wills this far.

  15. #55

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  16. #56

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    On education, you should read before you leap into print. I quite specifically said "tertiary education"....so you accept the rest of the system is not as good as it once was?

    Between 2012 and 2015 Scotlands reading score dropped dramatically...now I wonder what was on the SNP govt's mind at that time? Education or independance?

    The SNP came up with the slogan "It's OUR oil" long before Westminster could be accused of 'squandering' the revenue. The SNP are like a spoilt child "It's mine I want it" It's a good job Yorkshire didn't act like the SNP at the height of the industrial revolution.."It's our coal" We want independance! (Which Scotland benefited from btw) It's not Scotlands oil...it's the UK's oil.


    "
    The majority of Scottish voters who voted in the EU ref voted Remain" That's better.

    Orkneycadian, totally agree, As you pointed out before, The Northern Isles have only 'belonged' to Scotland for a reletively short while. If you want independance or to remain part of the UK then that should be your right, provided enough of the population vote for it.......If the ferry crossing wasn't so expensive I would move over in a shot. Perhaps when you are independant and own most of the oil and gas, residents could benifit from a massively reduced ferry fare, then I could move!

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  17. #57

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    A geography lesson is needed. See if you can keep up.
    The United Kingdom is made up of countries who are united together by a treaty. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. (In no particular order)
    These are 4 distinct countries. So for this simple Geography lesson, lets just say the UK is made up of four Countries.
    A country is made up of regions or areas.
    Within these regions or areas we have cities, towns, villages, hamlets etc.
    Are you following?
    Sometimes people become confused by this and try to compare a region or area with a country. For example; comparing Yorkshire; a region to Scotland a country.
    Another example; comparing a Scottish Island region to Scotland, the whole country. Many people also confuse a city with a country, for example comparing London; a city, to Scotland; a country.

    More Geography lessons by request

  18. #58

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    Thanks for the lesson Corky....sorry Maggie (must be a real nuisance logging in and out!

  19. #59

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    I was not making any points about anything other than tertiary education. If you want to read something else into what I wrote then that's up to you. But if you are going to make observations about things you allege are not as good as they used to be we could start by looking at the quite woeful way the Tories have mismanaged the English NHS; or the fact that child poverty is at an all time high; or the quite disgraceful way the current Tory government has vilified and scapegoated the poor and vulnerable in society. How about the quite cynical dismantling of the criminal justice system in England or the alarming rise in knife crime. I could go on and on.

    Thank goodness the Scottish government has acted as a buffer from all of this Tory mayhem. It is often said that the mark of a civilised society is how well it looks after its most vulnerable citizens. Well, I think we can all see which government is looking after its people better and it ain't in Westminster.

    So far as spoilt children go I don't think anything compares to the way Westminster treats Scotland - It's all ours and you'll get what we give you and you'll be grateful.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodfellers View Post
    Thanks for the lesson Corky....sorry Maggie (must be a real nuisance logging in and out!
    Are you sure you are OK? you seem to be getting mixed up. Mind you that explains some of your views! I am NOT Maggie and quite frankly this nonsense has gone on long enough. Please stop it now.
    Last edited by Corky Smeek; 04-Dec-19 at 17:06. Reason: Further thoughts

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