Where have all the loud mouthed Tories gone

[dozy]

Boris has been the gag that loud mouthed Tories didn't want in Scotland . Boris even put the Ruth Davidsons genie back in the bottle along with all the lies she spouted to fishermen and those who were blinded by false promises of a country paved with gold . "Strong and Secure " was the rally ,but that was a con and never meant to be for the masses . It was just a carpet baggers rant to get votes to keep the rich Tories in power at others expense and YES the one that couldn't swallow the Tories rant , they ran to the Tories second party and partners in crime the Lib Dems. Will we never learn.
What an adsolute mess they're making of the whole thing and the blame is all Westminsters . How can anyone who voted Tory, Labour or Lib Dem support any of them ever again . Its with a heavy heart but the time has come to look forward and shape the future that makes a diffidence to the many and not the few.
Time for Change .

[Goodfellers]

Just need the opposition to 'allow' an election. What are they scared of, if they win they can do what they like re Brexit. If they lose then they know Boris will change any law made regarding Brexit and he will take us out without a deal. There are a huge number of disgruntled 'leave' voters who back Boris...me included.

[dozy]

Good on you ,freedom comes to those who will stand up and speak up . Funny thing is that there seems to be a hell of a lot of folk that voted remain ,that now back leave . It's like telling those England supporters ( oh whatever sport) to put on a Germany jersey or France top. I don't see many happy to change just because the others won , do you ? .
Strange thing is that the back room secret deals done between the Tories and the Lib Dems to capture votes from both sides of the split Labour Party . Tories in the Blue (Brexit ) corner, Labour in the Red ( don't know) corner and the Lib Dems playing referee ( taken a bung from the Tories) with the bell , just to be safe. Now that's dirty tactics .

[Atherston]

Just need the opposition to 'allow' an election. What are they scared of, if they win they can do what they like re Brexit. If they lose then they know Boris will change any law made regarding Brexit and he will take us out without a deal. There are a huge number of disgruntled 'leave' voters who back Boris...me included.

I think Boris should ask the eu for a 1 day extension he will be abiding with the law then

[Goodfellers]

I think, like Baldrick , Boris has a cunning plan! Interesting to see what it might be......maybe go off sick just before flight to Brussels, note from Dr excusing him for two weeks....

[Gronnuck]

Five years ago I was an ardent unionist; since then I've seen the light. It's time to dissolve this toxic union and become a normal country, an independent country. Once we've accomplished that we can elect a government of whatever shade we want.

[Goodfellers]

I've said it before, I still am a unionist, if the SNP dropped the idea of rejoining the EU and wanted Scotland to be TRULY independant, then I may change my view. Luckily I do still have access to an address in England for all my savings and bank accounts should the worst happen. No way do I want anything to do with the Euro.

My brother lives in Portugal working for a large US company and is paid in Euros, he opened an account in Germany so only gets paid in German Euros, apparently each member country has its own euro and if Europe collapsed your Euros would be converted into currency dictated by the serial number (cash). He doesn't want Portugesse currency he wants the Mark. That tells me a lot about Europe. BTW he's an accountant

[Gronnuck]

If Scotland were to stay in the EU there is no compulsion to take up the use of the Euro. Scotland can use whatever currency it chooses to trade with. Many countries trade using dollars. Scotland could continue to use the pound; when the Republic of Ireland was created its currency was tied closely to the pound for over fifty years before it chose to adopt the Euro. Currently 9 member states do not use the Euro.

[Goodfellers]

Looking into this a bit more, only the UK and Denmark do not have to adopt the Euro every other country is supposed to be working towards joining as it is a requirement of EU membership (although Sweden has been 'working' towards it since 1995)

Extract from Factcheck https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-would-have-to-adopt-euro-after-joining-eu

the Commission reiterated Mr Juncker’s earlier comment that “All but two of our Member States are required and entitled to join the euro once they fulfil all conditions.”


I am making the assumption that the UK is leaving the EU and an independant Scotland applies for membership as a new member.

[Headwark]

On several occasions Spain has said it will Veto Scotland,s application to join the EU.

[dozy]

On several occasions Spain has said it will Veto Scotland,s application to join the EU.

The man who said that is no longer in the Spanish government . Spain would not veto Scotland's membership if England is out ,the statement was a way to keep the Gibraltar question alive. More going on than most people think or see when it comes to Spain.

[Gronnuck]

Given the state of the current tory grubbiement I cannot believe anyone thinks it’s a good idea to support Boris Johnston, he’s a narcissist and has been shown to be liar and a racist. His supporters in Westminster are complicit in the ongoing chaos. The conservative and unionist party is surely finished.

[theone]

The man who said that is no longer in the Spanish government . Spain would not veto Scotland's membership if England is out ,the statement was a way to keep the Gibraltar question alive. More going on than most people think or see when it comes to Spain.

The statement was nothing to do with Gibralter, and everything to do with Catalonia. Spain do not want 'breakaway regions' to become popular.

[Goodfellers]

I will admit I am a lifetime Conservative and unionist party supporter. I can't say I'm a fan of Boris but, as things stand, his party will be the only option (in the upcoming GE) to vote 'out'. He will do a deal with NF so no competing for the 'out' vote. Nigel will stand in a safe seat and get a place around the table at number 10 (assuming they win). The Remain vote will be split between Labour and Lib Dem (south of the border).

12.9 million registered voters did not bother voting in the EU referendum
14.6 million registered voters did not bother voting in the 2017 GE

Dominic Cummings knows who these people are, and will target them mercilessly. Same tactics he used to enable the Leave campagin to win. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel politicians are walking all over the public because they know better than you. These angry disenfranchised 'nobody's' will be the ones politicians will be after. Boris is the only politician who has stood up and said he will respect the vote to leave no matter what.

If you havn't seen it, watch Brexit, The Uncivil War, you will then understand why 'the little people' feel ignored and don't care about the economic argument, the just want out. Westminster has shown nothing but contempt to the 17+ million voters. They are soon going to pay the price for that.

Jeremy Corbyn know all of this. This is the real reason he doesn't want an election yet, nothing to do with 'getting no deal off the table'. He knows if BJ and NF win the election with a majority, they will overturn any legislation stopping a no deal exit.

If Labour were confident of winning, they would have agreed to an early election, won, and cancelled Article 50 and held another referendum.

I also predict a big gain for the SNP, sadly.

[dozy]

I will admit I am a lifetime Conservative and unionist party supporter. I can't say I'm a fan of Boris but, as things stand, his party will be the only option (in the upcoming GE) to vote 'out'. He will do a deal with NF so no competing for the 'out' vote. Nigel will stand in a safe seat and get a place around the table at number 10 (assuming they win). The Remain vote will be split between Labour and Lib Dem (south of the border).

12.9 million registered voters did not bother voting in the EU referendum
14.6 million registered voters did not bother voting in the 2017 GE

Dominic Cummings knows who these people are, and will target them mercilessly. Same tactics he used to enable the Leave campagin to win. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel politicians are walking all over the public because they know better than you. These angry disenfranchised 'nobody's' will be the ones politicians will be after. Boris is the only politician who has stood up and said he will respect the vote to leave no matter what.

If you havn't seen it, watch Brexit, The Uncivil War, you will then understand why 'the little people' feel ignored and don't care about the economic argument, the just want out. Westminster has shown nothing but contempt to the 17+ million voters. They are soon going to pay the price for that.

Jeremy Corbyn know all of this. This is the real reason he doesn't want an election yet, nothing to do with 'getting no deal off the table'. He knows if BJ and NF win the election with a majority, they will overturn any legislation stopping a no deal exit.

If Labour were confident of winning, they would have agreed to an early election, won, and cancelled Article 50 and held another referendum.

I also predict a big gain for the SNP, sadly.

I find the reference to the " big gain for the SNP" sad . It's about time that we put this Three hundred year plus English / Scots ( so called) agreement to bed . It's far better to have a good neighbour than an angry one ,we are well past Scotland making its own decisions . Scotland will never become the enemy of England ( or anyone else) . Let's just do what's right and give Scotland and Scots it's right to choose ( win or lose) . If your living in Scotland and meet the criteria to vote and it's all done fairly , NO lies ,No threats ,No bulling and No abuse . Let the Scots choose ,No more cheating or Fear . Let's have some truth .

I think Scotland going independent will only help , and the U.K. can still be the UK just under a different agreement.
Brexit comes over as a angry unionist and Tory party sycophant rant ,in a " do as I tell you and not as I do " . If it's time for change by the unionist / Tory supporters that choice must also be available to others.

I said at the time " Scotland should have been given a honest choice between the leave or stay campaign ,through the Scottish party system " that would mean NO interference from Westminster . With a set campaign budget for all the parties . It should have been Scotlands choice , funny how we have the complete opposite in the Brexit / leave side . YES we know the leave vote won but they should have had the same rules used in the Scottish referendum .

Brexit is like a cancer , some get it ,some don't .

[Goodfellers]

The entire voting system needs reform, something more akin to proportional representation. For example, UKIP get nearly 600,000 votes but no seat, SNP get 977,000 votes and get 35 seats.

Doesn't make sense, you get say, 35,000 votes and your opponent gets 35,001 votes multiplied by 650 seats and you could control the destiny of the UK based on getting 650 more votes than someone else.

As for referendums, there should be a set margin to 'win' It needs to be something like 60% of the vote. We can all see the problems caused by a 52% to 48% win

Had a bit of time on my hands so I've worked out what would have happened in the 2017 GE using PR (Scotland only)

Scotland has 59 seats

SNP 36.9% 35 seats (PR 21.70 seats)
CON 28.6% 13 seats (PR 16.87 seats)
LAB 27.1% 7 seats (PR 15.99 seats)
LD 6.8% 4 seats (PR 4 seats)
others 0.3 0 (PR 0 seats)

So, it appears the current system the SNP did well and Labour lost out.

When you start to look at it, the current system really doesn't represent the votes fairly, just looked at Wales,
The Conservatives took 33.6 % of votes cast but only got 8 seats out of 40 (only 20% of seats on offer)
Plaid Cymru took 10.4% of votes cast and got 4 seats ( 10% of votes and 10% of seats)
Labour took 48.9% 28 seats ( 50% of vote should equal 50% of seats ie 20)


It now seems to me, this first past the post system is flawed.

[dozy]

What now for the Tories loudest mouthed conman and what now for all those how follow the pied piper of lies. Not a word from the unionist drum beaters, god they must feel stupid after being scammed. Maybe scammed is the wrong word likeminded may be better . It's a bit like that Jimmy Saville moment , when you realise that what you've been told was all smoke and mirrors and the reality is you were conned . Just how many are happy to stick with the unionist flag wavers will only signal to the rest of us their real colours. Fly with the crows .

[dozy]

The entire voting system needs reform, something more akin to proportional representation. For example, UKIP get nearly 600,000 votes but no seat, SNP get 977,000 votes and get 35 seats.

Doesn't make sense, you get say, 35,000 votes and your opponent gets 35,001 votes multiplied by 650 seats and you could control the destiny of the UK based on getting 650 more votes than someone else.

As for referendums, there should be a set margin to 'win' It needs to be something like 60% of the vote. We can all see the problems caused by a 52% to 48% win

Had a bit of time on my hands so I've worked out what would have happened in the 2017 GE using PR (Scotland only)

Scotland has 59 seats

SNP 36.9% 35 seats (PR 21.70 seats)
CON 28.6% 13 seats (PR 16.87 seats)
LAB 27.1% 7 seats (PR 15.99 seats)
LD 6.8% 4 seats (PR 4 seats)
others 0.3 0 (PR 0 seats)

So, it appears the current system the SNP did well and Labour lost out.

When you start to look at it, the current system really doesn't represent the votes fairly, just looked at Wales,
The Conservatives took 33.6 % of votes cast but only got 8 seats out of 40 (only 20% of seats on offer)
Plaid Cymru took 10.4% of votes cast and got 4 seats ( 10% of votes and 10% of seats)
Labour took 48.9% 28 seats ( 50% of vote should equal 50% of seats ie 20)


It now seems to me, this first past the post system is flawed.

The scottish system was set up by Westminster ,the blame is theirs . Don't blame the SNP for wanting freedom over servitude . If Scotland was a country who's people were of colour, independance would have long been given .

[orkneycadian]

Why, after shouting so much about needing to be in parliament, "scrutinising the government", are MPs either,

*Still on their seaside jollies
*Posturing on national radio (Jeremy Vine) and not in the chamber
*Bawling at each other like bairns.

Wheres the so called scrutiny?

[Alrock]

Wheres the so called scrutiny?

Watching it right now on BBC Parliament.