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Thread: Caithness general hospital

  1. #1

    Default Caithness general hospital

    Hi my mother was a admitted to wick hospital last night and has been getting pressured by staff to sign paperwork to agree not to be resuscitated . My mother has asked a family member to stay by her side as she has no trust in the staff now but the hospital are objecting to that . This is a hospital people are fighting to keep open yet they terrorize their patients like this . Maby NHS Highland should take note that fifteen years ago it was us who forced them to make a six figure out of court settlement after they almost killed my dad and tried to cover it up. MY DAD ACCEPTED AN APOLOGY INSTEAD OF THE SETTLEMENT .

  2. #2

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    I do not believe this rubbish for one single minute. There may be some serious issues in the management of NHS Highland but I have never heard of anyone who would knock the dedication and professionalism of our local NHS staff who work incredibly hard for our benefit under some terrible circumstances.

    I suggest before you slander those staff where you clearly have an axe to grind from history, you stop and think about how shocking what you are saying is, and how it can destroy the morale of those staff.

    And no, you should absolutely not be staying in a hospital outside visiting times unless there is a need where the staff feel it is compassionate for the family to be there, such as paliative care or a sudden deterioration in health. I for one can say they bent over backwards to include family, when my mother worsened overnight they sent out a porter to my house, out of town, to gather the family to the hospital as they could not get through by phone. That is the dedication and compassion of our local NHS staff!!

    I also hope your mother feels better soon.
    Last edited by Michael Dennis; 03-Jan-18 at 06:27.

  3. #3

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    It is perhaps worth reflecting on the fact that resuscitation can be a fairly brutal process and if a person is very elderly, frail or has a lot of serious health issues, it is not always in their best interests to be subjected to it. However, I think that this should be decided by sensitive discussion with the patient concerned and I do know that it is an issue that comes up quite a bit in palliative cancer care and causes upset. I had a friend with incurable cancer who had this written on her notes (not, I hasten to add, at Caithness General but in England) from the moment she was deemed to be receiving palliative rather than curative treatment and she was certainly upset and angry that she could, for example, have a heart attack and that they would not try to resuscitate her even though the cancer was being treated and controlled. She did not have a choice and that was the policy and a medical decision that was out of her hands- and it is a common one so far as I can tell. Thankfully the circumstances never arose for her but all the same, it is an issue that does arise and can add to patients' distress.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    I was given questionnaire some years ago, by the doctor and it is for 'end of life' care. I was a bit taken aback by some of the questions. However I have made the decision that when the time comes it is my wishes that are being taken care of and not left to my family.

  5. #5

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    I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding around this. For a start, I believe it does generally apply to those who are old, frail, ill or who have life shortening illnesses or are in a coma or a vegetative state- those kinds of things. People can misinterpret it (and perhaps this is the case here) as meaning that the medics have somehow given up on you and are not going to do their best to treat you, make you better etc etc. This is not it at all- they are going to do all those things as per usual but they are not going to subject you to heroic efforts to bring you back (that can sometimes involve breaking ribs, opening your chest and massaging your heart), if your time has come.
    I think that it is sensible to have an end of life plan especially if you are older (as I am) and to let your wishes be known to your family doctor (if appropriate) and to your nearest and dearest. I don't regard it any differently than that is sensible to make a will and not shy away from it in the belief that you are not going to die sometime!

  6. #6

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    Well said Fulmar. He sent me a pvt msg basically saying he reported the Dr for doing what they swore an oath to do, advise of what they think in their clinical judgement is in the best interests of the patient.. Shocking!!

    I still cant believe the gaul of this post.

    I was subjected to CPR following a heart attack, I can tell you it is horrible, really horrible and I am only 34. To subject an older or frail person to that when it is against their interests would be awful, especially when it can put then through more stress and pain at the end of their life than is required.

  7. #7

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    Can I start my post by applauding all staff working within the NHS and their affiliated partners for their dedication, hard work and professionalism portrayed in such trying times.

    On the matter of DNAR CPR.

    This is something that is asked on many hospital admissions, on many occasions and for many differing reasons regardless of age.

    I find this difficult to believe that anyone has been coerced into this situation. Medical staff will sit with the patient discussing this with them if they have capacity. It is a very personal decision. It is also a medical decision.

    It is very rare that a patients wishes are completely disregarded.

    It should also be remembered resuscitation in many cases is rarely successful unless you are young, fit and otherwise healthy.

    The reality in successful resuscitation is possible long term medical consequences.

    I would urge anyone who has any concerns with regard to end of life treatment, resuscitation, any form of medical care in the first instance, speak to the staff involved with their care.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    I and my famly have had experience with 'end of life' issues with CGH and would like to say issues were delt with a lot of care and consultation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgitheanach View Post
    Hi my mother was a admitted to wick hospital last night and has been getting pressured by staff to sign paperwork to agree not to be resuscitated . My mother has asked a family member to stay by her side as she has no trust in the staff now but the hospital are objecting to that . This is a hospital people are fighting to keep open yet they terrorize their patients like this .
    Unfortunately I wasn't able to be with my mother when she passed away in March 2016, I will point out she didn't die in Caithness General, she died in another hospital in Scotland. The above post and especially the bits I have highlighted have given me nightmares. My mother was 88 and she died of Pneumonia, after reading that post I had visions of somebody standing over her forcing her to sign this DNR.

    I understand you are upset that your mum is ill, trust me, I do. When my mum died, in my head I was acting normally but in fact I was accusing the hospital where she died of killing her because I misheard or misunderstood something I had been told. They had not killed her, let me make that quite clear, and I apologised to the CEO of the hospital. I could easily have taken to social media or a forum like this and told the world the hospital had killed my mum, but I didn't (thank god).

    It is far from easy when somebody you love is in hospital and there is nothing you can do. But please, for the sake of people who have or (in my case) had relatives in hospital please think about what you are writing on a public forum before you write it, because you may very well have frightened a fair few people.

  10. #10
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    My late father had asked for a DNAR some years ago and on one admission to hospital it went missing. On investigation it had been shredded by accident. It was reissued after great debate and he was granted his peaceful passing when he went into cardiac failure at the age of 96.

    Agree 100% with DOCTOR as he was the one who talked us through dad`s first DNAR many years ago.
    Making tomorrow`s memories today

  11. #11

    Default Caithness General

    I have read all these posts. These are always difficult discussions but we can't ignore them. We have had a number of people raising concerns and so I asked Dr Kath Jones NHS Highland's clinical director for the area to respond. Here is what Kath had to say which backs up clinically other comments:

    "The basic premise of Do Not Attempt to Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (DNACPR) is to avoid causing unnecessary suffering or harm by attempting to prolong life when it will not make a difference. It is of course important to involve patients, next of kin relating to their healthcare whenever this is practical. A difficult but necessary aspect of this is to discover the patients wishes regarding what to do if their illness results in a cardiac arrest. For some it may be agreed to avoid attempting to prolong life through resuscitation , when to do so, would be futile due to their underling medical condition. Such decisions, made in advance, will both respect the patient's wishes and avoid unnecessary suffering and distress. DNA CPR only apply to specific circumstances of cardiac arrest. All other medical treatments will continue as per individual wishes following discussion with medical staff on options available. Such discussions are considered good practice and care and are advocated by the General Medical Council who state:

    'Generally CPR has a very low success rate and the burdens and risks of CPR include harmful side effects such as rib fracture and damage to internal organs; adverse clinical outcomes such as hypoxic brain damage and other consequences for the patient such as increased physical disability. f the use of CPR is not successful in restarting the heart or breathing and in restoring circulation , it may mean that the patient dies in an undignified and traumatic manner.'

    Patients and next of kin can and should always ask to the senior medical or nursing staff if they are unclear about anything to make sure matters are resolved while care s being provided. And all of us should be thinking abut having the conversations about DNA CPR, organ donation and making a will while we are well and able to discuss or wishes at end of life. When faced with the distress of a loved unwell having these things sorted help.

    If anyone want any further information but not via public forum please feel free to email me any time maimie.thompson@nhs.net - Head of PR and Engagement, NHS Highland
    Last edited by Mthom15; 11-Jan-18 at 18:49. Reason: Noticed second sentence didnt read quite right

  12. #12

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    So basically what we have all said then. I am still astounded that this thread even appeared in the first place.

  13. #13
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    wick
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    I'm sorry but I can't beleive all that was said by sgitheanach. I have never seen this happen or patients being forced to do anything.
    this is the norm now and I myself was asked last time I was in hospital. We don't always tell our next of kin if we wish to be rescusitated. It is better if we tell the hospital ourselves. A next of kin could say the opposite to what we want! At least this way it is on record on our notes, and it is what we want.
    I remember Dr. I.Malek giving an excellent talk about this some years ago to the Hospital Patients Council.
    Live for today as tomorrow may never come

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fran View Post
    I'm sorry but I can't beleive all that was said by sgitheanach. I have never seen this happen or patients being forced to do anything.
    this is the norm now and I myself was asked last time I was in hospital. We don't always tell our next of kin if we wish to be rescusitated. It is better if we tell the hospital ourselves. A next of kin could say the opposite to what we want! At least this way it is on record on our notes, and it is what we want.
    I remember Dr. I.Malek giving an excellent talk about this some years ago to the Hospital Patients Council.
    Many senior doctors talk about having a tattoo with DNR on it- as they would not want to go through the procedure themselves. However this isn't always communicated to patients in a sensitive way. When my dad died in CGH there was no attempt to revive him- and I think it's what he would have wanted as it was unexpected and peaceful. However I was phoned at work by the Ward and told he had gone. Perhaps communication skills are in need of development? There are good and bad ways to break bad news.
    Last edited by bagpuss; 04-Feb-18 at 01:48.
    Bagpuss

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