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Thread: Where have all the Westminater /unionist flag waves gone

  1. #41


    Small business rate relief.....Introduced in England three years before Scotland followed suit.

    Businesses would only be exempt if RV is less than £15,000, so clever spin to make uneducated readers think it might be £35,000

    The English figure is £12,000.

    Back to the SNP's 'green' credentials. Experts know that population of the Earth is the biggest threat to the health of this planet. Yet, the SNP are actively encouraging the population to have babies! Baby boxes, grants for just about everything. These should all stop. Only have a child if you can bring it up as you would wish. Why have children when you yourself are in 'poverty'. doesn't make sense. Governments around the world should be actively discouraging child birth.

    Same sex marriages became legal in England a year before Scotland, so not sure why you are giving the SNP any credit there.

    You mentioned all the schools the SNP have built, what about the 331 that are rated as in poor condition?

    Lets also give the SNP credit for the highest drug death rate in Europe, maybe even the world (per capita).

    Alcohol deaths are 54% higher in Scotland compared to the rest of the UK. Lets see the SNP boasting about that figure.

    I'll grant there are a few positive things on the list, but overall I personally think the SNP have been bad news for the majority of Scots, that's why only 977,569 voted for them out of 3,988,490 eligible voters 24.5%

    The next general election will be very interesting, although I doubt any Scottish party will get enough support to change anything. Nicola Sturgeon actually said something I agree with,she pointed out that the SNP has previously won a majority of Scottish seats in a general election on a minority of the votes. This was something I pointed out to Dozy a while ago, you might have all the MP's, MSP's but you may only represent the minority, a flawed voting system.

    I just hope it doesn't get too nasty

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2008


    Good morning Goodfellers, in response to your no.38
    In 2013 Scotland’s GDP was $248.5B. Every source I have looked at quote percentages which indicate modest and consistent growth on par with the rest of the UK. It could be argued growth to be a better indication of a countries potential. My own estimates put the figure at nearer $275B. The 2018 Scottish GDP per person was on par with the rest of the UK according to GERS.
    Regarding potential; Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK's population. But it does have...
    32% of the land area
    61% of the sea area
    90% of the fresh water. (There is more fresh water in loch Ness than In all the lakes in England and Wales combined!)
    65% of the natural gas production
    96.5% of the crude oil production
    47% of the open cast coal production
    81% of the untapped coal reserves
    62% of the timber production
    46% of the total forest area
    92% of the hydro electric production
    40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
    60% of the fish landings
    30% of the beef herd
    20% of the sheep herd
    9% of the dairy herd
    10% of the pig herd
    15% of the cereal holdings
    20% of the potato holdings
    100% of the Scotch Whisky industry
    70% of Gin manufacturing
    Scotland has huge potential alongside a...
    17 billion pound construction industry
    13 billion food and drink industry
    10 billion business services industry
    9.3 billion chemical services industry
    9.3 billion tourism industry
    7 billion financial services industry
    5 billion aeroservice industry
    4.5 billion whisky export industry
    3.1 billion life sciences industry
    Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports
    Scotland has 25% of Europe’s wave and wind energy potential.
    And finally, we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pounds - £1,500,000,000,000 worth of oil and gas reserves. All these figures are available online.
    The extraction of oil and gas while developing green technologies is not incompatible, lots of other countries are managing to do so. We can look to our Scandinavian neighbours who are doing it. The UK is doing it. The transition, like anything worthwhile, takes time.
    You’re right Trident is a very expensive insurance policy but do we really need it? Who are our enemies? Do we really envisage mass annihilation as way to resolve issues? We should be deeply suspicious of the American controlled Trident program. The missiles are refitted and exchanged in America, any that are tested are done so under the supervision of the American manufacturers and the US Navy. The guidance and control systems are American and the UK government is not allowed to modify, adjust or replace them. It could be argued that it cannot be described as a British Independent Nuclear weapon. In the event of Scotland achieving Independence Helensburgh will become home to a Defence Force fleet.
    The reason we cannot recruit enough teachers, nurses and doctors is more to do with the workplace politics than with anything else. Teachers and nurses, I have dealings with are not entirely comfortable with the management systems that interpret policy and govern their working life. So, yes a proportion will seek to work elsewhere, not necessarily in the UK though.
    Your question, “If Scotland had no oil, would it be pushing for independence?” The simple answer is Yes.
    You appear to promote the view that the UK has supported Scotland for three hundred years. Does that Westminster support include the Highland Clearances? Does that Westminster support include the deindustrialization of England and Scotland without regenerating anything in its stead?
    I get the impression that you believe that it is normal for another country to run, rule, and manage its neighbour. The union was supposed to be a union of equals yet there is plenty of evidence to show that there is nothing equal about the arrangement, then or now.
    I am disappointed at your effrontery when you say that when the oil runs out or becomes worthless, the people of Scotland will go begging the UK to take the country back! Since the end of WW2 over 140 countries have gained independence, not one has asked to be returned to its former overseer.
    I admit that I was an ardent unionist; in 2014 I voted an emphatic ‘NO’. I had spent 26 years in the military, served all over the world and I was proud of the UK and proud to be British. However my experience of September 2014 and analysing what happened I realised the people of Scotland had been comprehensively lied to. Project ‘Fear’ sponsored by Westminster and the MSM was based upon deceit and lies. The promised ‘Vow’ was carefully diluted almost out of existence.
    Then there was Brexit. The people of Scotland voted to remain and subsequently have been ignored. Since then we’ve seen the rise of British nationalism south of the border where racism and hatred have become more prevalent.
    I’m a Scottish ‘Normalist’, it is normal for a country to be independent.
    'We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike.'
    Maya Angelou

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2008


    Good morning again Goodfellers, I’m not going to respond to your no.41. I don’t want our debate to degenerate into a ‘he said, she said’ scenario. Yes, there are faults on both side of the argument and we could bounce ideas to and fro for an eternity, but time is precious. I respect your choices as I hope you will respect mine.
    Best regards.
    'We are more alike, my friends, than we are unalike.'
    Maya Angelou

  4. #44


    Hi Gronnuck. I'm all for keeping arguments civil (as much as possible, I know we can all get a bit heated when on our soapboxes). Wikipedia does quote your GDP figure for 2013. If you want accurate up to date figures, Scottish Gov do produce them.

    In 2018, the latest estimate of the annual value of Scotlandís onshore GDP in current prices (i.e. not adjusted for inflation) is estimated at £163.3 billion, or around £29,900 per person.
    Including oil and gas extraction in Scottish waters, Scotlandís GDP is estimated at £179.5 billion, or around £32,900 per person. GDP per head for the UK as a whole was around £31,900.

    The three countries you compared Scotland to have much higher GDP per capita, which is why I don't think the EU will be too kenn to accept Scotland as a member.

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