How do you train yours?

**porshiepoo** · 25-May-07, 12:24

I've seen various different methods and beliefs on here lately about the correct way to train our dogs, so I'd be interested to hear what y'all think.

Do we know the best way to train our dogs? Do you prefer the obedience approach or do you believe that pack leadership comes first and obedience naturally follows? Should we even bother training them if they don't cause us any problems?

**buggyracer** · 25-May-07, 12:53

the owner needs to be alpha, everything else will come into place after that.

**veekay** · 25-May-07, 12:59

If you don't know talk to someone who does. I mean would you attempt to rewire your house if you didn't know what to do? A dog is dangerous if not trained properly not only for the owner but for the public at large,

**porshiepoo** · 25-May-07, 14:33

Personally I prefer to use pack hierarchy to assert leadership and have found that alot of the other stuff falls into place so much easier.

Dogs can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and I'm reluctant to believe there are dangerous breeds rather than dangerous owners. Any breed of dog can become a nuisance or killer in the wrong hands.

I personally think that Cesar Milan is spot on with his theories and I have based my 'dog training' using similar methods for a few years now.
Many people don't agree with Cesars methods or those of his ilk and I guess as long as we have happy healthy dogs then it should be each to his own.

I used to take my GSD's to obedience classes, the boy moved to the highest grade within months he was so easy to train but the girl was a nightmare. She was hyper, uncontrollable and would have me in tears of frustration. Their training was the exactly the same so why the huge difference? Looking back I can see the difference in their actual upbringing in the house. We took no chances with the boy and were very clear on his limits and boundaries within the pack, he was so huge that we felt very aware of the danger he could be if we raised him wrong. He turned out to be a real softy. The girl was a different story - she got away with murder at home, she was just so darn cute. We didn't set he real limits and boundaries, whatever made her quiet was fine by us and she turned into a neurotic tigger, half GSD half bulldozer.
Things could have been so different if I'd understood then as much as I understand now.

**dragonfly** · 25-May-07, 15:41

pack leadership works best with our pets, our 17 year old cat is still the boss!

Seriously, I'm the alpha and and then my 11 year old lab, our year old pup??? has learnt most from me reprimanding him when he's stepping out of line and a lot he has learnt from the older dog without me having to teach it (such as carrying his lead when safe to let him do so, sitting and asking for his food before being allowed to eat it and so on). have been to dog training with him and have learnt a lot about being the alpha. I would say whatever works best for you

**golden** · 25-May-07, 16:25

Originally Posted by veekay

If you don't know talk to someone who does. I mean would you attempt to rewire your house if you didn't know what to do? A dog is dangerous if not trained properly not only for the owner but for the public at large,

Agreed - every dog needs to be trained.

Regarding methods, well that's each to their own, what works for some dogs may not for another they are all individual. The good thing about pack theory is that it's been used for years and it seems to work for most dogs, however there is now more research being done saying the pack and dominance theory's are flawed.

I do a combination of pack and clicker training this seems to work for me and my dog.

I must admit though I no longer use the old fashioned "heel command" by checking the lead, I've found that the clicker has 100% sorted that, thankfully .... recall is another story though.

Again each to their own but either way the key is to be consistant.

**veekay** · 25-May-07, 19:08

[quote=porshiepoo;226584]
Dogs can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and I'm reluctant to believe there are dangerous breeds rather than dangerous owners. Any breed of dog can become a nuisance or killer in the wrong hands.

Sorry to disagree but there are dangerous dogs. OK so man has bred them to be that way but they do exist. Trouble is the Omega man insists on having them and that is a really dangerous situation

**porshiepoo** · 26-May-07, 14:47

[quote=veekay;226651]

Originally Posted by porshiepoo

Dogs can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and I'm reluctant to believe there are dangerous breeds rather than dangerous owners. Any breed of dog can become a nuisance or killer in the wrong hands.

Sorry to disagree but there are dangerous dogs. OK so man has bred them to be that way but they do exist. Trouble is the Omega man insists on having them and that is a really dangerous situation

My husband came back with his friends Staffie many years ago, his friend had asked him to have it put down for him cos it had killed a dog and was quite nasty. To cut a long story short, I fell in love with Buster and begged hubby (then boyfriend) to let me try to help him. We ended up with a dog that could be let loose with any dog no probs and not aggressive at all.

Nope, I'll always believe that there are not bad dogs just bad owners.

Every dog is dangerous no matter what the breed if it's in the wrong hands, it's just that a yorkie attacking it's owners doesn't grab headlines like a Rottie etc does.

**crustyroll** · 26-May-07, 18:28

[quote=porshiepoo;226868]

Originally Posted by veekay

Every dog is dangerous no matter what the breed if it's in the wrong hands, it's just that a yorkie attacking it's owners doesn't grab headlines like a Rottie etc does.

I totally agree! I know many more small dogs that will bite and attack than big dogs but generally nothing is said about them unless it's a Staffy!

Lots of dog owners that own small dogs believe they aren't a problem and don't usually train them very well or enforce house rules. Let's face it a small Yorkie jumping up at your legs is nothing compared to a Lab/GSD/Rottie jumping up to say hello.

EVERY dog is different and your rules and training must be adapted to each one. It's all to easy when you have more than one dog to get a little lax and let them away with murder - which I have to admit to doing at times

I use a combination of obediance training and pack rules with basically me and the hubby being the leaders. However in our DOG pack the eldest bitch is the pack leader. The human pack and the dog pack live in harmony quite easily with the dogs following the human rules most of the time

I usually use reward based training but I am NOT afraid to say no and give them a tellling off when it demands it. I have seen many people completely ignoring bad behaviour as they believe this is correct. In my mind - okay I know dogs don't think like us - if they continue to do a behaviour that you don't like but aren't being corrected or distracted from it what have they learnt?

If you are consistent with your initial training you will find dogs don't forget and it usually only takes a glance or word from you for them to know whats acceptable and what isn't. Some dogs will try it on and push the boundaries but you just go back to basics again. A lot of it is just common sense but maybe it is just easier for some than others?

**Lolabelle** · 27-May-07, 11:39

I have done a combination of obedience and pack leadership. We did most of the leader thing instinctively. We read a lot about ridgebacks when we first got Lola, and ridgey's are notoriously strong willed dogs. Years ago some one told me that you can never train a ridgeback. Well I beg to differ. My dogs are remarkabley well behaved and happy. They follow me everywhere, I take them walking both on a lead and free in the bush. Every where I go people comment on their behaviour, and they certainly are not scared of us. But two different natured dogs I have never seen. Lola is demanding and ADHD. She just can't help herself. And Kruger is a big softie, but he's a bit sneaky, steals shoes and things. They are treated the same, and Lola likes to please, she does what she is told instantly. Kruger only does what he has to when he feels like it. But out of the yard, he relies on me and is very obedient. They both do. Out of their comfort zone I think. But I am happy to admit, that I am still learning, and hopefully will never think that I know it all. But I love watching Cesar Millan. I love the results he gets, and the show has made me aware of some dog behaviour issues that I didn't really understand, but now make perfect sense.

**brandy** · 27-May-07, 13:09

*grins* i dont even agree with ignoring bad behavior in my children. if they do something bad, then they are punished, be that on the naughty step or at worse a pop on the bum, actions have consequences.
now i wouldnt pop a dog however, as that does make them mean in my experiance. but i would put a pup in its crate for a time out. im not a hundred percent on dicipline.. i have a lot of reading to do! the past week ive been reading everything i can find on the labradoodle.. next step is puppy books.. and how to's...

**veekay** · 28-May-07, 18:31

[quote=brandy;227069]*grins* but i would put a pup in its crate for a time out.

You say crate so I presume you mean the pups sleeping area/cage. Surely this is supposed to be a place of safety, a nice place to be. not a place of punishment

**Jo.b** · 29-May-07, 00:08

Originally Posted by porshiepoo

Personally
I used to take my GSD's to obedience classes, the boy moved to the highest grade within months he was so easy to train but the girl was a nightmare. She was hyper, uncontrollable and would have me in tears of frustration. Their training was the exactly the same so why the huge difference? Looking back I can see the difference in their actual upbringing in the house. We took no chances with the boy and were very clear on his limits and boundaries within the pack, he was so huge that we felt very aware of the danger he could be if we raised him wrong. He turned out to be a real softy. The girl was a different story - she got away with murder at home, she was just so darn cute. We didn't set he real limits and boundaries, whatever made her quiet was fine by us and she turned into a neurotic tigger, half GSD half bulldozer.
Things could have been so different if I'd understood then as much as I understand now.

I believe it's all in the breeding, i also have worked / trained many GSD's and you start to soon realize which ones were from the same breeding lines. They do take on fighting / aggression habits from there parents AND from bad experiences. I agree that with training you can correct these habits, but as you have described your bitch was much harder work than your dog, not necessarily because of her spoilt upbringing, but possibly from her breeding lines. That is why it is so important to know where your dog has come from, by meeting the parents.

**brandy** · 29-May-07, 00:25

umm yes, but i was thinking more of a time out.. just like i would send sam and ben to their room for a time out..
its more about calming down and chilling out than.. your bad go to your room.
at least thats how it is with my kids.. when they trow a tantrum.. and start screaming and throwing things.. i make them go to time out until they are calm. and the best place is where they feel safe and secure.. you would be amazed how snuggling up in bed under the covers when you are really angry.. can often drain the anger away.
my kids know when they can come out.. they will call down and say mummy!! and i will say are you ready to come down?
they say yes.. and come right back down..
im not talking about leaving a pup in for hours.. i was thinking more min, just until it calmed down.. or more like i got the mess cleaned up!
heres a scenario for you.. pup is in the living room.. you come downstairs from say the toilet.. and you find your potted plant .. well remains all over the living room floor.. with said pup rolling around having a ball.. after you say several bad words in your head.. and count to ten.. you take said pup put him in his cage until you can clean up the mess... and let him out again.. well open door and he can come out when he wants..
that dosent sound to terrifying to me.. now if i said loose your head.. scream, shout.. and take broom to the dog.. that is traumatic.. (and cruel)
or worse hand the broom to hubby and say .. you deal with it.. we are going for a walk! *Grins*
but as all this is hypothetical.. i am learning here..
it was just a suggestion.. its how i punish my kids.. funny how its ok to put a child in time out but cruel for a dog?

**gary.b** · 29-May-07, 15:12

[QUOTE=porshiepoo;226868]

Originally Posted by veekay

My husband came back with his friends Staffie many years ago, his friend had asked him to have it put down for him cos it had killed a dog and was quite nasty. To cut a long story short, I fell in love with Buster and begged hubby (then boyfriend) to let me try to help him. We ended up with a dog that could be let loose with any dog no probs and not aggressive at all.

Nope, I'll always believe that there are not bad dogs just bad owners.

Every dog is dangerous no matter what the breed if it's in the wrong hands, it's just that a yorkie attacking it's owners doesn't grab headlines like a Rottie etc does.

Sorry porshiepoo, there are bad dogs as well as bad owners, sadly for whatever reason there definitely are bad dogs.

**Lolabelle** · 30-May-07, 06:26

Originally Posted by brandy

umm yes, but i was thinking more of a time out.. just like i would send sam and ben to their room for a time out..
its more about calming down and chilling out than.. your bad go to your room.
at least thats how it is with my kids.. when they trow a tantrum.. and start screaming and throwing things.. i make them go to time out until they are calm. and the best place is where they feel safe and secure.. you would be amazed how snuggling up in bed under the covers when you are really angry.. can often drain the anger away.
my kids know when they can come out.. they will call down and say mummy!! and i will say are you ready to come down?
they say yes.. and come right back down..
im not talking about leaving a pup in for hours.. i was thinking more min, just until it calmed down.. or more like i got the mess cleaned up!
heres a scenario for you.. pup is in the living room.. you come downstairs from say the toilet.. and you find your potted plant .. well remains all over the living room floor.. with said pup rolling around having a ball.. after you say several bad words in your head.. and count to ten.. you take said pup put him in his cage until you can clean up the mess... and let him out again.. well open door and he can come out when he wants..
that dosent sound to terrifying to me.. now if i said loose your head.. scream, shout.. and take broom to the dog.. that is traumatic.. (and cruel)
or worse hand the broom to hubby and say .. you deal with it.. we are going for a walk! *Grins*
but as all this is hypothetical.. i am learning here..
it was just a suggestion.. its how i punish my kids.. funny how its ok to put a child in time out but cruel for a dog?

Brandy, I don't think what you've said is bad or cruel, but I am not sure that a dog would realise that is has done anything wrong. If I caught my dog ripping into a pot plant, I would very firmly say "NO" and then send it outside or as you said out of the way. Please correct me if I am wrong folks, but a firm repremand is nesessary to make a pup or dog know that what it is doing is not acceptable. And it is not much use going crook if you haven't actually caught them in the act, when they don't know what is wrong or right. I would watch them (if possible) and say No when they approached a forbidden item. So they should then learn not to touch something. One of our dogs used to jump on the lounge. We just waited till he approached it, said No and then directed him to his bed. Where he was allowed to be. He only actually jumped onto the lounge one. Then he quickly learnt that the lounge was not a dog space.

**veekay** · 30-May-07, 09:09

You're right lolabelle a sharp no is just what I find is best. It also has to be at the time no good doing it later as the dog hasn't got a clue what the reprimand is for.

**porshiepoo** · 30-May-07, 09:31

I don't think it matters what the word is as dogs don't understand the meaning of words

, it's the tone of voice that has the effect.
How about growling. Stop laughing! It really works.

**cat** · 30-May-07, 11:27

hi.i didn't like the thought of putting my pup in a cage. after having labs all my life i'd never had any need to.
then along came new puppy, a basett hound!!
after months of stubborn hound behaviour and no concept at all of toilet training i went and got a cage and a book on how to use it! she has been perfect every night since.she only goes in it at bed time,she is outside most of the day.when she is in the house i just say NO if she jumps,chews etc
i was glad i left using the cage for a while tho as i think that if we had used it before she was capable of lasting the night without going to the toilet then she probably would have thought it was ok to pee in there.
a dog knows by your tone that they have done wrong but you shouldn't use the cage as punishment as you have to deal with bad behaviour at the time and the dog wont know you have sent them there for it,they don't think in that way!
good luck