who's watching the children

[JAWS]

The tragedy involving the child also has nothing to do with the question you posed - but I will indulge you.

I think in the instance you presented, the feckless single mother (who now has a partner who does not live in the area) had made a bad decision in leaving her children alone whilst going out with her friends from the south.

Now, how would she be portrayed on Caithness.org.......well she would be pilloried by you and Nick, and I would reserve judgement till I knew all the facts.

I gave you the facts, the whole facts, and if you believe that the reaction would be as you describe then you have far more faith in people than I have.

And when did I "pillory" the parents? I have just said I personally do not feel sympathy towards them. If that is pillorying them then, once again, you read far more into the facts I have written about my attitude than is actually there, but then again, that’s not the first time this morning.

[Angela]

Nick, I do feel you've made your point several times now, but you are not prepared to accept that other people are entitled to a different opinion.

I think that what the McCanns did was wrong - therefore it was an "incorrect idea" as you describe it -therefore it was a mistake!

You are determined to insist that it is impossible for it to be both a wrong decision AND a mistake. I think it was both.

I am not "happy to justify" their actions, in fact I don't even try to justify their actions.

However I don't know them, and I don't know the full facts, any more than anyone else, and I really don't see that I have the right to pass judgement on them.

As a mother and grandmother, I do know that if I had made a serious error of judgement, which gave an opportunity to someone to harm my children or my grandchild, I would be condemning myself every waking moment. It would only add to what must be every parent's worst nightmare. Because of that, I do feel sympathy for the parents, insofar as anyone can feel sympathy for people they don't actually know in real life.

I for one have read all your posts, and taken on board what you have to say. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

[Angela]

There are definately a difference of opinions on this thread, Maternal V Paternal, I do not feel able to judge one way or the other as I have never been in that position, but if I was pushed into a corner I would side with the paternals. In the Med', taking your children into resturants at any time is the norm, my children would have been at my side if it was me.

Sorry, golach, you've lost me here ... ...where do you see "Maternal v Paternal"?

I don't understand!

[NickInTheNorth]

If you have read them all you will have noticed that I have used the word mistake to comment on their actions

A mistake is a wrong idea. The two cannot be split apart.

I am not offering my opinion solely on the McCann's. I believe it is wrong for anyone to leave small children alone and unsupervised in any building at any time whilst absenting themselves from the property. I am not passing judgement on them. I am passing judgement on the action of anyone. They happen to fall into the definition.

And just as a reminder of the question I posed way back:

Is it right to leave a child of not quite four years old outwith adult supervision. For however long or short a period of time?

My own thoughts are that in principal no it is not. At that age they are too young to be responsible for themselves.

[golach]

Sorry, golach, you've lost me here ... ...where do you see "Maternal v Paternal"?

I don't understand!

Angela , just an obsevation, more sympathy from the female .Orgers than the male .Orgers IMO

[scotsboy]

I gave you the facts, the whole facts, and if you believe that the reaction would be as you describe then you have far more faith in people than I have.

And when did I "pillory" the parents? I have just said I personally do not feel sympathy towards them. If that is pillorying them then, once again, you read far more into the facts I have written about my attitude than is actually there, but then again, that’s not the first time this morning.

Nothing wrong with a bit of faith Jaws

[scotsboy]

Angela , just an obsevation, more sympathy from the female .Orgers than the male .Orgers IMO

Are you having a go at my sexuality Golach

[Angela]

Angela , just an obsevation, more sympathy from the female .Orgers than the male .Orgers IMO

Perhaps so, I hadn't counted ...no poll on this thread!

...but, then while I totally agree with you that I wouldn't have left (in fact never did leave) my kids alone in a similar situation and I do think it was a mistaken thing to do so far as I can gather, that doesn't preclude my being sympathetic towards the parents...so far as I can be, given that I don't actually know them. I do think knowing what a dreadful mistake they've made must make it so much worse for them.

[squidge]

I dont see much justification of the actions the McCanns did - it was a bad decision, a mistake, a stupid thing to do but we ALL do them. We ALL have moments of madness and nick you are deluding yourself if you beleive that as your little ones grow up you wont do that. And that is why I cant and wont condemn them for their actions.

I made one this last weekend with my 18 year old. Following a really stressful week with him where he refused to dry the pots wash up or pull his weight in any way I told him i was not taking him anywhere or doing anything for him until he mended his ways. On monday night he phoned and asked me to pick him up off the train when he got back into Inverness from going to Beauly. He had been told he had to do his washing and sort stuff out at home so i told him No He would have to get his own way home on the Bus or walk. He got back into Inverness and ended up going for a few drinks with his pal and ended up in a situation where he could have lost his life. And im not being dramatic when i say that. The police are searching for a man in connection with the incident but if i hadnt been so bloody minded then he and his friend wouldnt have had to go through the frankly terrifying ordeal they had to go through.

I dont justify the McCanns other than to say that they are paying a terrible price for a lapse in judgement - an error - a mistake - a stupid thing to do - whatever you think about it they dont deserve to lose their little girl like that and they arent repsonsible for the sick person that has done this. they beleived their children were safe or they wouldnt have left them i am sure. That it was naive and stupid is now there for all the world to see.

[Max]

[QUOTE=NickInTheNorth;222795]Having answered that, I would just like to ask a straight forward question.

Is it right to leave a child of not quite four years old outwith adult supervision. For however long or short a period of time?

I really don't believe anyone is going to answer yes to that! I am quite sure everyone is in agreement that it was a mistake and one the parents are paying dearly for. I think many of us are just trying to say nobody is perfect, we are all human and although the majority of us wouldn't do that we may make equally poor decisions at some time in our lives. Like Squidges example -can we truly say we will never make a bad decision? Maybe not at pre- school age but perhaps at post-school age?