Dairy products are causing cancer.

[Rheghead]

Don't tell me what to do, or not to do.

I am not, if you think I am then the problem is yours alone. I am having a discussion about the health risks of eating dairy, eggs and meat. I am presenting the scientific evidence that supports the risks.

[Rheghead]

Rhehead

You ask;

If the claims are valid then why do people still choose to eat them?

I have said it before and I will say it again.........Because we like the taste. What plant smells or tasted like fried bacon?

I've never known anyone to give up eating animals because of the taste but plant-based food is also delicious. I also know from personal experience that when I gave up smoking then my food tasted better, the same thing happened when I gave up animal products, my food tasted much better, i think it had something to do with the fats in meat blocking the taste receptor signals. After a short period on a plant-based diet, a lot of other people do report that the smell of animal product taste stale and that fruit and vegetables taste much better. Foodies often talk about tasting higher notes in their food and drink, I think that happens when people eat a plant-based diet. I can only agree with that to the point that animal products do not look and feel like food anymore. Bacon is a taste-deadener to the cost of appreciating other foods. and may explain why meateating kids struggle with eating vegetables.

[sids]

I am having a discussion about the health risks of eating dairy, eggs and meat. I am presenting the scientific evidence that supports the risks.

You are preaching, campaigning and exaggerating.

[Rheghead]

You are preaching, campaigning and exaggerating.

This issue is not about preaching, campaigning or exagerating. It is about education though, the science speaks for itself. Are you just opposed to yourself having a plant-based diet or are you opposed to anyone doing it for themselves?

[Goodfellers]

Rheghead, can you explain why the population of emerging economies chose to switch to a meat based diet if all they are used to is a plant based diet and their taste buds have not yet been corrupted ?

Tonga is another example where the population were recently given access to cheap 'meat' and the plant based diet went out the window. I am sure you will have read the article, but for everyone else, here is a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35346493

[sids]

the science speaks for itself

Then let it. You're not a scientist.

[Rheghead]

Rheghead, can you explain why the population of emerging economies chose to switch to a meat based diet if all they are used to is a plant based diet and their taste buds have not yet been corrupted ?

Tonga is another example where the population were recently given access to cheap 'meat' and the plant based diet went out the window. I am sure you will have read the article, but for everyone else, here is a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35346493

Well if there wasn't a better indictment about what i having been saying then I do not know what is. It proves to me that people cannot think logically when it comes to their food.

[Rheghead]

Another study to show the health benefits of a plant-based diet. Strangely enough, it says the benefits of a vegetarian diet are stronger in men.

In summary, vegetarians have consistently shown to have lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers across all three prospective cohorts of Adventists. Beyond meatless diets, further avoidance of eggs and dairy products may offer a mild additional benefit. Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to provide some added protection against obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes; and cardiovascular mortality. In general, the protective effects of vegetarian diets are stronger in men than in women. At present, there are limited prospective data on vegetarian dietary patterns and body weight change, obesity and neurological disorders. Large dietary intervention trials on the effects of vegetarian diets on obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular outcomes are warranted to make meaningful recommendations for nutritional planning, assessment, and counseling.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...9/#!po=43.1034

[scorrie]

The World Health Organisation and Oxfam are working on a scheme to improve the diet of a Cannibal tribe in South America.

The conclusion they have reached is that the only way for their diet to be healthier is if they stick to eating Vegans only.

Vegan Volunteers are being sought to put themselves forward in the name of helping Cannibals to live a longer, healthier and happier life.

An early stumbling block has been Cannibals who prefer the taste of meat eating people. "There's just no flavour off these Veg Munchers" has been a typical comment.

[Neil Howie]

Program on BBC 1 tonight made for this thread?
9.00pm, the truth about meat

[Rheghead]

Program on BBC 1 tonight made for this thread?
9.00pm, the truth about meat

Well I only saw the second half of the programme so I'll catch up with the first half on iplayer.

Two points though...

It was clear that the overwhelming conclusion of the programme was that consumption of red meat should be be reduced to two days of the week if you are to avoid the worst chances of heart disease and cancer, that was not in dispute. If you regularly consume meat most days then you will be doing your body a service by following the guidelines.

Secondly, the programme makers were obviously in cahoots with the meat industry during the making of the programme in presenting a sanitised process of killing and butchery. We didn't even see the dispatch. Why? What are they afraid of? Well the truth is that people who see the killing process are put off eating meat because they don't want animals to feel pain and suffering. They suddenly make the connection between the meat on their plate and sentient animals who feel pain and suffering like we do. If the process was actually humane then you should be able to let your 5 year old see it, but it isn't. They talked about making the pre-killing process like waiting in a stress-free departure lounge, fresh hay and straw was seen to be on the ground, maybe they receive a duty-free buttercup on the way through the abbatoir? What a wonderful image to clear our conciences but it wasn't out of any love for the animal, the sanitised presentation was out of getting the best quality for the meat as stress makes the meat tough unpalatable and profits are affected.

[sids]

Is fried goolies as good as they say?

[Fulmar]

I think that you are getting off topic though, Rheghead and yes, I agree that there are reasons to do with taking the life of an animal at an abbatoir which might make one give up meat eating but that is not the same as the health one.
The evidence of a link between high red meat consumption (especially processed meat) and bowel cancer is established in my view but not that cutting meat out altogether is preventative. I return to what I said earlier. I certainly know of one life long vegan who developed bowel cancer and I would imagine that came as an added huge shock.
We, human beings, evolved as hunter gatherers who ate shellfish, fish and hunted and ate wild animals. There is no getting away from that. I have heard the argument advanced that eating meat enabled the cultural, artistic and intuitive and imaginative aspects of human culture to flourish as time was 'freed up' from the constant search for food just to survive. As it happens, despite what you have said in earlier posts, longevity is increasing overall in the UK and we are all living longer. With advanced age comes the increased risk of cancer (due to complex factors related to aging) as probably, we should not be be living as long as we now do and certainly we did not survive as long in pre-history.
One thing that does now seem to be established is the very real connection between alcohol consumption and cancer risk. But you are not banging on at people for drinking are you! Why not compare the risk of eating your breakfast egg with drinking a large glass of red wine every night. I am willing to bet that it is not the cackleberries that present the greater risk!

[Rheghead]

We, human beings, evolved as hunter gatherers who ate shellfish, fish and hunted and ate wild animals. There is no getting away from that. I have heard the argument advanced that eating meat enabled the cultural, artistic and intuitive and imaginative aspects of human culture to flourish as time was 'freed up' from the constant search for food just to survive.

It wasn't eating meat that freed up people to multi-task from constantly searching for food, it was agriculture and specifically it was growing crops to create food and granaries to store food throughout the year.

As it happens, despite what you have said in earlier posts, longevity is increasing overall in the UK and we are all living longer. With advanced age comes the increased risk of cancer (due to complex factors related to aging) as probably, we should not be be living as long as we now do and certainly we did not survive as long in pre-history.

But longevity in recent years has nothing to do with eating meat, in fact eating meat is a threat to longevity.

One thing that does now seem to be established is the very real connection between alcohol consumption and cancer risk. But you are not banging on at people for drinking are you! Why not compare the risk of eating your breakfast egg with drinking a large glass of red wine every night. I am willing to bet that it is not the cackleberries that present the greater risk!

I'm a teetotaller, you will most likely not take any drinking advice from a teetotaller because I'd come across as holier than thou. But i am sure I could start preaching if you really want me to?

[Rheghead]

Another study that suggests that milk products; aggravate acne, increases BMI and increases insulin resistance. Probably not good to consume milk if you want to avoid type 2 diabetes and have a good body.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23975508

Abstract

Acne appears to represent a visible indicator disease of over-activated mTORC1 signalling, an unfavour-able metabolic deviation on the road to serious common Western diseases of civilisation associated with increased body mass index and insulin resistance. Exaggerated mTORC1 signalling by Western diet explains the association of acne with increased body mass index, insulin resistance, and early onset of menarche. Both, a high glycaemic load and increased consumption of milk and milk products, staples of Western diet, aggravate mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 signalling. This review of the literature summarises present evidence for an association between acne, increased body mass index, insulin resistance and Western diet. By dietary intervention with a Palaeolithic-type diet, the dermatologist has the chance to attenuate patients' increased mTORC1 signalling by reducing glycaemic load and milk consumption, which may not only improve acne but may delay the march to more serious mTORC1-driven diseases of civilisation.

[Alrock]

Acne is a good thing to have if you're obsessed with longevity of life....

Acne sufferers live longer, research suggests

[sids]

Acne is a good thing to have if you're obsessed with longevity of life....

Acne sufferers live longer, research suggests

They drank their milk.

[Rheghead]

Acne is a good thing to have if you're obsessed with longevity of life....

Acne sufferers live longer, research suggests

No that isn't the conclusion of that study. The study suggested that people who suffer from acne may live longer lives. The mechanism cause for long life isn't the acne. However, people who suffer from acne may get benefit or relief from acne if they refrain from consuming dairy products and they will almost certainly live healthier and longer lives.

[sids]

No that isn't the conclusion of that study. The study suggested that people who suffer from acne may live longer lives.

Suddenly, he knows what "may" means!

The mechanism cause for long life isn't the acne. However, people who suffer from acne may get benefit or relief from acne if they refrain from consuming dairy products and they will almost certainly live healthier and longer lives.

Aw damn he's back to making stuff up.

[Fulmar]

'By dietary intervention with a Palaeolithic-type diet, the dermatologist has the chance to attenuate patients' increased mTORC1 signalling by reducing glycaemic load and milk consumption, which may not only improve acne but may delay the march to more serious mTORC1-driven diseases of civilisation.'

Hate to say it but a palaeolithic diet definitely would have included eating meat!
The only argument I have with your postings is that they are simplistic on a topic that is incredibly complex. There actually is evidence that people who eat a lot of red meat are at increased risk of various cancers but not that moderate consumption is an issue. There is a definite connection too between obesity and cancer. It is the second greatest risk factor after smoking. But it does not follow that eating dairy products or red meat in moderation is going to 'cause cancer' or necessarily make you fat. There are many more factors involved in whether a person is obese or not as most of us already know as there is in whether someone develops cancer.
All vertebrate animals get cancers. Is it simply a matter of them eating the wrong diet then, in your view. If we could only persuade all the carnivores to become vegans, would they be risk free- no, of course not .Equally, are the herbivores eating the wrong diet because some of them develop cancer. No, anymore than it is true of people. Sadly, vegetarians and vegans get cancer too and in any individual, no scientist or medic is going to appoint a definitive cause unless there is overwhelming evidence such as high exposure to radiation or workplace asbestos or something like that. Also, if a person develops cancer, believe me the last thing that they need in dealing with the disease and its treatment is to be led to believe that its somehow their fault and that is the logical conclusion of your posts with regard to eating meat and dairy products.
Cancer generation is incredibly complex and you simply cannot say, as this thread is headed, that 'dairy products cause cancer'.
I would urge anyone who is concerned about all of this to look at the Cancer Research UK website where you can find all the up to date information backed up peer reviewed research.