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Thread: Dairy products are causing cancer.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    You don't understand what you're posting on here.

    Playing Russian roulette increases the risk of death.

    Your link says "consumption of eggs may increase risk of developing a lethal form of prostate cancer among healthy men."

    Do you not know what "may" means?
    It seems you do not understand what risk and what hazard means.

    They are two different things.

    Russian roulette is a hazard and there is a risk of death attached to playing Russian Roulette. A big risk of death. But it may only cause death as it is possible play Russian roulette without dying. Russian Roulette may cause death but then it may not but you are at increased risk if you play it. If you play one game of Russian Roulette in your life then you have a 16% risk of dying from a bullet in your head. The risk to developing a fatal cancer from eating animal products throughout your life is not much different.

    The 'may' in this context is the uncertainty that refers to an activity which eggeaters are also doing which may cause cancer that the non-eggeaters aren't doing that was not identified or corrected for in the study. You need to find a reason and it may be that the eggeaters are also eating dairy and meat but it may also be that eggeaters enjoy building stuff with egg boxes and painting eggshells with carcinogenic oil paints.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 17-Sep-16 at 14:11.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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    And wisdom to know the difference.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    It seems you do not understand what risk and what hazard means.

    They are two different things.

    Russian roulette is a hazard and there is a risk of death attached to playing Russian Roulette. A big risk of death. But it may only cause death as it is possible play Russian roulette without dying. Russian Roulette may cause death but then it may not but you areat increased risk if you play it.
    That's what I said. Playing RR increases your risk of prompt gunshot death.



    The 'may' in this context is the uncertainty
    Yes. You should stick to sensible stuff like that.

  3. #43

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    I think Rheghead is sharing some very interesting information on what may be the benefits of a meat and dairy free diet. Thank you Rheghead. I struggle to see any effort on his part to tell anyone what they should, or should not, eat and I, for one, am better informed. At times it can be easy to dismiss other people's thoughts out of hand with nonsense arguments just because they ARE someone else's thoughts. If life is all about scoring points and burying heads in the sand for some......then so be it. For others it might be about sharing,listening and learning to mutual benefit.

    Janey

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    Yes. You should stick to sensible stuff like that.
    I'm trying to educate myself and hopefully others about the risks involved with eating dairy and other animal products, knowledge is power and I'm disappointed if someone tries to attack the studies in an unintelligent way or even in an anti-intellectual way.

    There are only two courses of action, read the thread, then acknowledge the hazard and risk of eating animal products then make a judgement on whether you act upon that knowledge or not. I'm afraid I have no time for denialists.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 17-Sep-16 at 15:21.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by janeyj View Post
    I think Rheghead is sharing some very interesting information on what may be the benefits of a meat and dairy free diet. Thank you Rheghead. I struggle to see any effort on his part to tell anyone what they should, or should not, eat and I, for one, am better informed. At times it can be easy to dismiss other people's thoughts out of hand with nonsense arguments just because they ARE someone else's thoughts. If life is all about scoring points and burying heads in the sand for some......then so be it. For others it might be about sharing,listening and learning to mutual benefit.

    Janey
    Thank you, I'm glad you are finding the thread useful.

    What really puzzles me is that if there is so much scientific evidence at the academic level to suggest that consumption of animal products has an increased risk of developing cancer then why is it mainly up to vegetarian and vegan groups to promote the information? Given that these groups have a politically fringed reputation and image then surely the promotion of the risks should be taken up by the NHS or mainstream education? Why is it that health policymakers are virtually silent on this topic? Why is it when a cancer patient goes to their doctor then they are not advised to adopt a plant-based diet to slow down the development of tumours if the evidence is there?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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    And wisdom to know the difference.

  6. #46
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    Here is another study which suggests that the introduction of a westernised diet in East Asian populations of more meat and dairy is associated with an increase in the incidence of various cancers.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22357483
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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  7. #47
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    Here is a study which suggests that vegetarians have significantly less incidence of heart disease and cancers than those of meateaters.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22677895
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Thank you, I'm glad you are finding the thread useful.

    What really puzzles me is that if there is so much scientific evidence at the academic level to suggest that consumption of animal products has an increased risk of developing cancer then why is it mainly up to vegetarian and vegan groups to promote the information? Given that these groups have a politically fringed reputation and image then surely the promotion of the risks should be taken up by the NHS or mainstream education? Why is it that health policymakers are virtually silent on this topic? Why is it when a cancer patient goes to their doctor then they are not advised to adopt a plant-based diet to slow down the development of tumours if the evidence is there?
    Yes, it's puzzling. I'm not sure I have an answer. The best I can come up with is that maybe for every study advocating a pro vegetarian or vegan diet there is a study advocating the consumption of animal products as part of a varied diet? If that is correct then I guess the NHS might be expected to advocate what you might call a traditional varied diet. That is until such time as the evidence becomes so overwhelming in favour of vege diets that the NHS can advocate them without fear of litigation.

    Personally, I believe in a varied diet but one which does not have much meat in it (maybe 3 times a week in my case) nor too much dairy and oh, I really try to avoid non-organic root vegetables. That's very important to me but I try not to get too wound up about it. So what I'm saying is I don't think it's a good idea to have too much of anything really as even large quantities of what some people might think of as a very healthy food could be harmful. That's where I'm at these days but I try to be open-minded. Research will go on forever and a day so I guess it's sensible to remain open-minded while respecting everyone else's choices.

    Just a cautionary tale of how advocating a diet too religiously can go badly wrong. My sister is a strict vegan and will not even eat chocolate because of the milk content. When she gave birth to a girl we were all concerned when my sister proposed that my new niece would be brought up on a strict vegan diet. The family saw this as a dangerous experiment for a child in development and so it proved to be. As she grew up my niece was being told by her mum that she couldn't eat this and she couldn't eat that and, frankly, she became confused and too scared to eat almost anything at all. A sort of paranoia set in. I think there were only about 3 foods that she would eat. She refused all food in school or when visiting friends houses and she became badly under-nourished. The result was that various health problems developed and she became seriously ill. At one point her Doctor only gave her months to live. Thankfully she pulled through and she has reached her teenage years but it was a close call at one point. I guess the moral of the story is that, whatever a parent's diet preferences may be, babies and children should be given a balanced diet until such time that they can reasonably make their own choices.

    Janey

  9. #49
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    I cannot comment on your niece's case but there is no reason why a child can't be brought up a healthy vegan, it shouldn't have been seen as a dangerous experiment. I suspect that a child is more likely to be healthy if a vegan than for meateater because of such a poor diet in chips, and junk food etc etc. Perhaps your niece was confused not because your niece was brought up vegan but because there is a huge amount of social and peer pressure for kids to eat meat and dairy from other kids if they are meateaters, confusion only occurs when someone receives two conflicting stories. I'd imagine there must be virtually no control over kids once they are at school. I'm sure once a vegan child is identified at school then they'd be the target of plenty of ridicule at school. It shouldn't be like that, we should be supportive of people who have a healthy diet.

    I believe that parents should bring up their children as they see fit and give them enough information for them to make their own decisions. If it is done right then there will be no reason for kids to want to eat meat or dairy given the health risks. It seems to me that there is no safe lower limit to the amount of animal products that a child can eat. I can say that with confidence because one of the studies mentioned showed that men who ate an average 2.5 eggs per week had an increased risk of 81% of developing prostate cancer than those that ate hardly any at all. 2-3 eggs per week is not a huge amount, it would even be considered a low intake and certainly not the egg per day brreakfast that we were encouraged to eat in the 1980s.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 17-Sep-16 at 23:46.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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    And wisdom to know the difference.

  10. #50
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    "Life is a sexually transmitted disease, with 100% fatality." R.D.Laing

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    It's all the processed food that causes cancer in certain individuals so best to avoid supermarkets because all they sell is highly processed crap. It's not rocket science.

  12. #52
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    I'm an alcoholic, smoke 50 roll ups a day, only exercise when I change gear in the car, only eat once per day (at 5pm), prefer laying on bed than exercising...... I have seen many people get cancer who don't smoke / don't drink / don't eat junk food / take regular exercise etc etc. The thing is, it seems, the ones who DON'T imbibe in the verbotten nasties (tobacco / booze / bacon and eggs etc.) are the poor sods who get cancer!

    The native American Indians smoked tobacco........ Henry the eighth enjoyed a pint or two.............

    I'm not at all proud admitting that I smoke 50 a day and do a bottle of scotch per evening BUT I am 55 years old and have never been in a Hospital (tochwood).

    I am no expert but ANYTHIING purchased from a supermarket (super processed) is the reason why cancer is killing us...... it's NOT passive "smoke" it's the we are being offered on the aisles.

  13. #53

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    For me, the best source of information that I can totally trust is Cancer Research UK. If you go on their website, it is easy to find all the latest on causes of cancer and the newest scientific evidence is to be found on there. You can find plenty on it about diet, exercise, 'superfoods', fads......
    This below is a quote from on their site on dairy foods:

    .Studies looking into the link between cancer and dairy products have not given clear results. There is evidence that dairy products could reduce the risk of bowel cancer, but we cannot say for sure that this is the case. There is no strong evidence linking dairy products to any other types of cancer. We need further research to find out more about the links between dairy products and cancer risk.
    Hormones in milk

    In some countries, a hormone called bovine somatotrophin (BST) is used to speed up or increase the production of milk or meat. In the UK and the rest of Europe, farmers are banned from using this hormone, and the import of meat from countries, including the US, where this hormone is used is also banned. This ban is on animal welfare grounds and not because there is any proven effect on human health. Independent health bodies including the European Union Scientific Committee have reviewed the evidence on BST and found it does not pose any harm to human health.
    The Food Standards Agency regulates the content of dairy products, including milk. This set of standards makes sure these products are safe to use.'
    Last edited by Fulmar; 19-Sep-16 at 08:19. Reason: not quite finished

  14. #54

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    Dairy products are causing cancer. This is very misleading statement to use as a thread title, I would have thought the word ‘may’ should be in theresomewhere.
    As mentioned earlier, I was a poultry farmer for 40 yearsand have eaten a huge number of eggs and dairy produce. I devour blocks ofcheese, eat whole cartons of clotted cream with a spoon (delicious), munch myway through piles of bacon sandwiches and eat enough steak (thanks to theCastletown hotel steak nights!) to rebuild several cows each year. I am veryhealthy, normal cholesterol level, no signs of any cancer (thanks toNHSScotland for screening service).
    As previous commentator said, some very healthy nonsmokers/drinkers end up riddled withcancer. Cancer often runs in families, which is why doctors are interested infamily history. This is also why some people live to a ripe old age havingsmoked/drink/ eaten ‘unhealthily’ all their life. We are all going to die, Iplan on arriving at the pearly gates having enjoyed all my life and notregretting missing out on all the delicious food this world has to offer.
    I have known several vegetarians in my life, they were allyoung. As they have reached late 30’s – 40’s something seems to happen andvegetarianism goes out the window, probably the realisation that life is shortand unpredictable.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSTOTM View Post
    a bottle of scotch per evening
    Don't worry about that.

    Just stay off the egg-nog.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    For me, the best source of information that I can totally trust is Cancer Research UK. If you go on their website, it is easy to find all the latest on causes of cancer and the newest scientific evidence is to be found on there. You can find plenty on it about diet, exercise, 'superfoods', fads......
    This below is a quote from on their site on dairy foods:

    .Studies looking into the link between cancer and dairy products have not given clear results. There is evidence that dairy products could reduce the risk of bowel cancer, but we cannot say for sure that this is the case. There is no strong evidence linking dairy products to any other types of cancer. We need further research to find out more about the links between dairy products and cancer risk.
    Hormones in milk

    In some countries, a hormone called bovine somatotrophin (BST) is used to speed up or increase the production of milk or meat. In the UK and the rest of Europe, farmers are banned from using this hormone, and the import of meat from countries, including the US, where this hormone is used is also banned. This ban is on animal welfare grounds and not because there is any proven effect on human health. Independent health bodies including the European Union Scientific Committee have reviewed the evidence on BST and found it does not pose any harm to human health.
    The Food Standards Agency regulates the content of dairy products, including milk. This set of standards makes sure these products are safe to use.'
    That's the thing though isn't it Fulmar. We have CancerUK saying that what you quoted on their website but I've put up several scientific studies that show that dairy products are a significant cancer risk factor. What do you think is going on? Why are they not telling us the full story? Why do they not go by the scientific studies? Why aren't they at the very least telling us to take a precautionary strategy by advising us not to consume animal products or cut them down? How many studies need to be published until they change their advice?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  17. #57
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    What does the World Health Organisation say?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    What does the World Health Organisation say?
    They say this as their key statement for breast cancer

    Early detection in order to improve breast cancer outcome and survival remains the cornerstone of breast cancer control.
    Detection yes but they are very mute on the causes of breast cancer. I always thought that prevention is better than cure.

    I've put up several studies that strongly suggest that eating animal products are a significant risk factor in causing breast cancer. That is a bit of a shortcoming from WHO I think.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 20-Sep-16 at 12:12.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  19. #59
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    Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine state

    Recent scientific studies have suggested that dairy products may be linked to increased risk for prostate cancer, testicular cancer, and possibly for ovarian and breast cancers.Prostate cancer has been linked to dairy products in several studies. In Harvard’s Physicians Health Study, including more than 20,000 male physicians, those who consumed more than two dairy servings daily had a 34% higher risk of developing prostate cancer than men who consumed little or no dairy products. Several other studies have shown much the same thing.
    A recent analysis of studies examining a relationship between dairy product consumption and ovarian cancer risk found that for every 10 grams of lactose consumed (the amount in one glass of milk), ovarian cancer risk increased by 13 percent.
    In Asia, where whole grains, vegetables, fruits, tofu, soymilk, and other soy products are commonly consumed and milk is not a normal part of the diet, people are generally healthier and breast cancer is much rarer than in the United States and Europe.
    http://www.pcrm.org/health/cancer-re...dairy-products
    Last edited by Rheghead; 20-Sep-16 at 12:26.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    In Asia, where whole grains, vegetables, fruits, tofu, soymilk, and other soy products are commonly consumed and milk is not a normal part of the diet, people are generally healthier and breast cancer is much rarer than in the United States and Europe.
    There's a boat leaving today.

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