Dairy products are causing cancer.

**mi16** · 26-Jan-17, 07:07

Reg, are you not going to answer the question then.

i am not the one preaching about carbon and cruelty footprints fella, you are

**sids** · 26-Jan-17, 07:33

Originally Posted by dreghead

I set out in this thread to investigate the original claim of the OP.

You are the OP.

**Rheghead** · 26-Jan-17, 17:37

Originally Posted by sids

You are the OP.

Yes i am.

Since you are the one making allegations of me twisting twisting the facts and science then this is a good opportunity where we give a reappraisal of the studies. So what i propose to do is repost the all the science studies that show consuming animal products increases the risk of getting cancer. This will give you another opportunity to discuss whether the science is flawed or faked or if i am twisting the science.

Here is a study which shows that consuming animal products give rise to increased risk of developing cancer, and vegetarian diets give some protect against certain cancers but vegan diets are even more protective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929[/QUOTE]

CONCLUSION:

Vegetarian diets seem to confer protection against cancer.

Vegan diet seems to confer lower risk for overall and female-specific cancer than other dietary patterns.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929[/QUOTE]

**Serenity** · 26-Jan-17, 17:47

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Yes i am.

Since you are the one making allegations of me twisting twisting the facts and science then this is a good opportunity where we give a reappraisal of the studies. So what i propose to do is repost the all the science studies that show consuming animal products increases the risk of getting cancer. This will give you another opportunity to discuss whether the science is flawed or faked or if i am twisting the science.

Here is a study which shows that consuming animal products give rise to increased risk of developing cancer, and vegetarian diets give some protect against certain cancers but vegan diets are even more protective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929

Give it up. I am open to vegan lifestyles but your way of promoting it just turns people off. I know that you will come back and say that proves you are right and everyone just doesn't want to admit it. It doesn't but think that if you want. Either way if you actually care about changing people's views, if you think it will help their health, the environment and animal welfare then find a different way to do it. This way does not work. If you genuinely care about these issues and aren't just on your soap box you would have realised this and adopted your posting style accordingly. You haven't so you are either ignorant, deluded or educating people is not your real aim here.

**Rheghead** · 26-Jan-17, 17:53

Originally Posted by Serenity

Give it up. I am open to vegan lifestyles but your way of promoting it just turns people off. I know that you will come back and say that proves you are right and everyone just doesn't want to admit it. It doesn't but think that if you want. Either way if you actually care about changing people's views, if you think it will help their health, the environment and animal welfare then find a different way to do it. This way does not work. If you genuinely care about these issues and aren't just on your soap box you would have realised this and adopted your posting style accordingly. You haven't so you are either ignorant, deluded or educating people is not your real aim here.

My way is to raise the awareness of the science by posting the studies. There is nothing ad hominem about that. The worse thing i can do is keep silent as a medical injustice is being perpetrated by large retailers and cancer charities as i have demonstrated. You want me to keep quiet because you do not want to be reminded of the health, environmental and ethical reasons to go vegan. You are not going to change, but someone will.

I am doing this because I care deeply about others.

**Serenity** · 26-Jan-17, 18:24

Well that went as predicted. You are just a zealot. Over the years on this forum I've seen you act this way on various issues. You always go straight from zero to zealot. It never has the effect you claim you want.

As I said if you cared about people's health at all you would rethink the way you are presenting this information. But you won't so I can only conclude that you don't.

**Rheghead** · 26-Jan-17, 18:46

Originally Posted by Serenity

Well that went as predicted. You are just a zealot. Over the years on this forum I've seen you act this way on various issues. You always go straight from zero to zealot. It never has the effect you claim you want.

As I said if you cared about people's health at all you would rethink the way you are presenting this information. But you won't so I can only conclude that you don't.

What a mind job! I post the science, facts and reasoning why eating a plant based diet has so much benefit for your health, planet and the ethical treatment of animals......and i am the one who is made to feel bad and a zealot? And yet people are put off the facts and science by knowing the facts and science? wow! That is actually funny if it wasn't so depressing.

**Serenity** · 26-Jan-17, 19:08

Originally Posted by Rheghead

What a mind job! I post the science, facts and reasoning why eating a plant based diet has so much benefit for your health, planet and the ethical treatment of animals......and i am the one who is made to feel bad and a zealot? And yet people are put off the facts and science by knowing the facts and science? wow! That is actually funny if it wasn't so depressing.

You like facts and studies so much. Here is an article with a link to one stating what I am saying is true. I'm sure if I didn't have a life I could find 20 pages worth of them quite easily. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...estyle-choices

So again, if you really do care and it means more to you than just being right, then take those studies on board in the same way you take the other ones on board.

**Rheghead** · 26-Jan-17, 20:23

Originally Posted by Serenity

You like facts and studies so much. Here is an article with a link to one stating what I am saying is true. I'm sure if I didn't have a life I could find 20 pages worth of them quite easily. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...estyle-choices

So again, if you really do care and it means more to you than just being right, then take those studies on board in the same way you take the other ones on board.

Well there is a serious flaw in your reasoning for posting the link.

The subheading is "Positive health messages are more inspiring than fear based messaging", i couldn't agree more! That is why I am promoting a positive change to everyone's lifestyle. You too can be part of a vegan revolution to change not just yourself but the planet. I have always been positive in this thread about a vegan diet. It is others who have been negative about a vegan diet. It is others who have insulted me, claimed this thread is boring ....yadda yadda.

You can be vegan from today and change the world for the better. It doesn't need an act of parliament, it doesn't need a war or anything, it just requires you to stop filling your stomach with animal secretions and dead body parts. It can start from this monent if you really wanted. Nobody is in charge of your body than yourself. I'm not in charge of you, I am not even in charge of you being a willing participant of this thread, you are here of your own volition. If you do not like the subject matter then leave and save yourself some guilt.

**Serenity** · 26-Jan-17, 23:57

Originally Posted by Rheghead

Well there is a serious flaw in your reasoning for posting the link.

The subheading is "Positive health messages are more inspiring than fear based messaging", i couldn't agree more! That is why I am promoting a positive change to everyone's lifestyle. You too can be part of a vegan revolution to change not just yourself but the planet. I have always been positive in this thread about a vegan diet. It is others who have been negative about a vegan diet. It is others who have insulted me, claimed this thread is boring ....yadda yadda.

You can be vegan from today and change the world for the better. It doesn't need an act of parliament, it doesn't need a war or anything, it just requires you to stop filling your stomach with animal secretions and dead body parts. It can start from this monent if you really wanted. Nobody is in charge of your body than yourself. I'm not in charge of you, I am not even in charge of you being a willing participant of this thread, you are here of your own volition. If you do not like the subject matter then leave and save yourself some guilt.

Going on and on about the risks of cancer, and telling people they are ruining the environment is very much a fear based message which is my entire point. It might be true but it doesn't work.

And as you rightly say no one is forcing me to read or participate in this thread. I am choosing to do so. I am also choosing to reply with my thoughts on the way you are trying to share your message. And I have no guilt surrounding this issue, so stop putting your feelings onto other people.

**sids** · 27-Jan-17, 00:03

Reg must be a fine figure of a man, with his super diet and all.

And it must boost his brain so that he holds down a super job.

**Rheghead** · 27-Jan-17, 00:43

Originally Posted by Serenity

Going on and on about the risks of cancer, and telling people they are ruining the environment is very much a fear based message which is my entire point. It might be true but it doesn't work.

And as you rightly say no one is forcing me to read or participate in this thread. I am choosing to do so. I am also choosing to reply with my thoughts on the way you are trying to share your message. And I have no guilt surrounding this issue, so stop putting your feelings onto other people.

Promoting a vegan diet and proving the benefits is a positive message. i have re-addressed whether that can be misinterpreted and it can't unless you do not give a damn about your health, the planet or the animal's welfare. Any other interpretation is merely twisting basic values. You either believe that eating food should be nourishing; should be least damaging to the planet or kinder to animals or you don't, it is as simple as that.

Powerful people and stupid people have one thing in common. They always adjust the facts to suit their opinions, they never adjust their opinions to suit the facts.

I am not here to be psycho-analysed or make friends and influence people. I am here to raise awareness about the detrimental effects of eating meat and dairy. The science is sound. Take it or leave it, you have made your position known. But if you run against the science then it says more about you than it does about me.

Are you against having a diet that is much more beneficial for your health and the planet for yourself or do you not want others to have it too?

**Goodfellers** · 27-Jan-17, 10:22

I decided to google 'what is a truly balanced diet'................I chose to read the article by Harvard School of Public Health. This was part of Harvard Medical School until it became independent, so I would say highly reputable...........https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...-eating-plate/ They agree with Rheghead on a lot BUT they say limit red meat milk & dairy, you do not have to cut it out entirely.

This is a message that more people might take on board rather than 'bombarding' everyone with endless research links, find one sound bit and keep promoting that..............I think this thread has so many 'hits' is for the entertainment value, not the scientific content.

**Rheghead** · 27-Jan-17, 20:38

Originally Posted by Goodfellers

I decided to google 'what is a truly balanced diet'................I chose to read the article by Harvard School of Public Health. This was part of Harvard Medical School until it became independent, so I would say highly reputable...........https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...-eating-plate/ They agree with Rheghead on a lot BUT they say limit red meat milk & dairy, you do not have to cut it out entirely.

This is a message that more people might take on board rather than 'bombarding' everyone with endless research links, find one sound bit and keep promoting that..............I think this thread has so many 'hits' is for the entertainment value, not the scientific content.

Any reduction in meat and dairy consumption is welcome for your health, the environment and animal welfare.

However...

But how much is considered a truly healthy level? How much is considered sustainable for the planet when population reaches 12 billion mid to late this century? How much is considered to be cruelty-free? Three different issues, three very good reasons to reduce or cut it out entirely.

Let's put this veganism into practice. When someone goes vegan, they are suddenly faced with the prospect of eating a healthy diet, no matter what they do. They will really struggle to gain weight and they will look younger and have more energy. Their bad cholesterol levels will plummet. If they have type 2 diabetes, their need for medication will drop. They will have the prospect of being faced with a huge variety of food options that are more varied and satisfying than meat and dairy.

They have a red line that isn't to be crossed and that is consuming animal products, in a few weeks of being vegan then they won't even consider meat and dairy as food. So tempting a vegan with a pork sausage is a bit like asking them to eat a piece of poo or a baby's leg. So it is very easy to keep to their dietary choices, being a vegan is not like being on a fad diet, it is a lifestyle which enriches your life because being a vegan is causing less environmental damage, it is a healthy lifestyle and it is kinder to animals, that is very rewarding, not just on a physical level but on a spiritual and mental level as well.

But what is the alternative? Restrict meat and dairy? To what exactly? 1/4 of your plate? Depends on the size of plate and your link didn't just mention meat as the protein provider that occupies that 25% Restricting your meat intake to a smaller amount sounds much like 'calorie counting' to me. It is effective over small periods in a person's life but in no time at all the person is back up to the original amount because counting is hard work and boring. In other words people just fail at the advice they are given...and there is not passion for life in it too.

I do not know the exact figures but I would give a ballpark estimate that the healthy level of meat, eggs and dairy is about the same amount as the rationing allowance was during WW2. In other words a very small amount than what you are probably used to which doesn't sound very appetising to me.

I suspect the sustainable amount is a much lower level of meat and dairy per person if the Earth is required to sustain 12 billion persons later this century. So why the bother? It seems to me that the option that people will actually stick to, honestly, is the vegan one. The comment that i often see amongst new vegans is that the only regret they have of going vegan is that they did not do it much earlier.

**mi16** · 27-Jan-17, 21:40

Originally Posted by Rheghead

So tempting a vegan with a pork sausage is a bit like asking them to eat a piece of poo or a baby's leg.

I knew a girl who was vegan, when she got drunk she absolutely craved a sausage supper, she could often be found after a session, outside the chippy demolishing a pork sausage in batter.
So tats another untrue theory of yours!!

**sids** · 27-Jan-17, 21:45

Vegan and vegetarian diets are just choices about what you eat.

You don't turn into a new sub-human species that cannot eat sausages.

**Rheghead** · 28-Jan-17, 10:13

Originally Posted by mi16

I knew a girl who was vegan, when she got drunk she absolutely craved a sausage supper, she could often be found after a session, outside the chippy demolishing a pork sausage in batter.
So tats another untrue theory of yours!!

She wasn't a vegan, dunno why she claimed she was a vegan.