[QUOTE=Rheghead;1160320]Oat milk is an excellent substitute for dairy milk and has been claimed to have the most dairy
Ok. We have established local farmers can grow oats. Probably potatoes, turnips and grass too.
In a previous ‘Brussel Sprouts’ conversation you mention you could fry with olive oil. Who is producing that locally?
I look forward to a tasty recipe using only the ingredients mentioned. (This could be a good format for a tv cookery programme).
I did say many moons ago that I was a poultry farmer for more years than I care to remember. When we moulted the hens, they were fed a diet of oats for fourteen days. This made them loose their plumage and put them off lay. This is because oats fill the stomach but do not provide the correct balance of nutrition needed.
I look forward to your tasty offering.
Last edited by Goodfellers; 20-Jan-17 at 09:18.
it is a very interesting question, if being ecologically friendly is high on your agenda.
Id be interested to see a breakdown of the ingredients in your kitchen and the countries of origin.
Surely buying things that required to be transported hundreds or even thousands of miles to get to you would be completely out of the question due to the carbon footpring, then you also have to question the method of harvesting the ingredients, were the workers paid a decent living wage and were the working conditions suitable? this will clearly have a huge impact of the cruelty footprint.
I look forward to the breakdown.
W.A.T.P.
I Googled ‘are humans natural meat eaters or vegetarians’ There are lots of scientific papers/research that contradict Rhegheads assertion that ‘we’ are herbivores.It appears that we started off that way but our brains only grew when we started eating meat. That explains a lot when it comes to veggies/vegans
I will only bore you with two links to ‘research’, just Google the same question I did ifyou want more.
http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/sorry-vegans-eating-meat-and-cooking-food-is-how-humans-got-their-big-brains/2012/11/26/3d4d36de-326d-11e2-bb9b-288a310849ee_story.html?utm_term=.09e2495fc25d
For those who cannot be bothered, below is a tiny sample of what I discovered
One study,published last month in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,examined the brain size of several primates. For the most part, larger bodies have larger brains across species. Yet humans have exceptionally large,neuron-rich brains for our body size, while gorillas — three times as massive as humans — have smaller brains with one-third the neurons. Why?
“The bottom line is, it is certainly possible to survive on an exclusively raw diet in our modern day, but it was most likely impossible to survive on an exclusively raw diet when our species appeared,” Herculano-Houzel told LiveScience.
The second study, published in October the journal PLoS ONE, examined the remains of a prehuman toddler who died from malnutrition about 1.5 million years ago. Shards of a skull found in modern-day Tanzania reveal that the child had porotichyperostosis, a type of spongy bone growth associated with low levels of dietary iron and vitamins B9 and B12, the result of a diet lacking animal products in a species that requires them.
The child was around the weaning age. So either the child’s mother’s breast milk lacked key nutrients or the child himself did not consume enough nutrients directly from meat or eggs.
Either way,the finding implies that meat must have been an integral, and not sporadic,element of the prehuman diet more than 1 million years ago, said the study’s lead author, Manuel Dominguez-Rodrigo, an archaeologist at ComplutenseUniversity in Madrid.
This supports the theory that meat fuelled human brain evolution because meat — from arachnids to zebras — was plentiful on the African savanna, where humans evolved, and is the best package of calories, proteins, fats and Vitamin B12 needed for brain growth and maintenance.
“Carnivore animals, whether terrestrial or aquatic, are bigger-brained than herbivores,” Dominguez-Rodrigo told LiveScience. He added that “there is no [traditional] society that live as vegans,” essentially because it wouldn’t be possible to get Vitamin B12, which is only available in animal products.
Last edited by Goodfellers; 20-Jan-17 at 14:48.
So, is it alright to chop down virgin forest on the other side of the globe, destroying wild life, the local ecology, the lives of people who live in harmony with their environment in order to provide oils etc that need air miles to reach us?
I'll stick to growing my own vegetables with NO insecticides and sharing any surplus with friends and neighbours.
Thanks for that but there is just one or two reasoned facts that undermine that whole premise.
You are correct that vitamin B12 is an essential dietary necessity. You are quite correct that animal products are high in vitamin B12. But the crucial point to remember is that neither plants nor animals produce vitamin B12 in their bodies. It all comes from the action of bacteria in the soil. Animals just simply store B12 at higher concentrations than what plants do.
Raw veganism is a healthy lifestyle that suggests what is in the name. There are thousands of raw vegans who are living healthier lives as a result of their diet. If meat was essential for a human brain then surely these raw vegans would have brain disease where they would wither and die? That doesn't make sense. Another point is that people suffer from vitamin B12 difficiency, not because they are not eating enough but the body cannot assimilate it because of aging. Farmers regulary inject their own animals to suppliment the animals deficiency.
In other words, there is no link between larger brains and eating meat. What drove larger brains was the need to communicate to others in a more complex social way. Simply put, Lucy is small brained, but she walked on two legs. It was thought that a large brain was essential for walking on 2 legs, that was debunked. And now the large brain believers are trying to assign eating meat to the reason for large brains. There is no single reason for except for the need to communicate and solve problems. I have attended archaeology lessons where the teacher tried to convince me that humans needed a complex brain to break open the bones to get at the marrow after the vultures had left the carcass. Well seeing as we know that the human brain can now split the atom and cure some cancers then it seems to be a big sledgehammer to crack open a bone.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
Sainsbury report a 360% increase in the sales of vegan cheese (Gary) over the last decade.
http://www.sainsburysmagazine.co.uk/...ut-going-vegan.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
Not had a chance to go through the larder yet Reg?
W.A.T.P.
He has skillfully dodged that issue, should have been a politician!
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
“We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
And the machine is bleeding to death."
Calculating the carbon footprint of transporting products applies to everything whether it be clothes, people, cars or anything etc. If you want to convince me of the need to reduce the carbon footprint of transport then there is no better way than doing it by rail. I will fully support that. I will also support providing that rail with electric power from renewable sources, are you with me?
A vegan lifestyle creates about 20% less carbon emissions than a omnivores lifestyle. A vegan lifestyle does not depend more on overseas trade than a meateater's lifestyle. If anything, it would even mean less air miles being incurred. It is a fact that we export a huge amount of meat and dairy products only to import a huge amount of meat and dairy products. All this criss-crossing of meat involves a huge amount of carbon emissions. Some of those exports and imports involves live animals which means animals are couped up in terrible conditions just to be slaughtered at the end of their journey. You seem to think your food comes from Farmer Giles' farm from just over the field.
And then if the meat and dairy does not involve live animals then there is a huge refridgeration cost and a huge carbon footprint to that.
And since it takes about 10kg of plant protein to produce 1kg of animals protein for us to eat, then there is a huge amount of hidden carbon emissions in transporting and processing all that plant food to feed to the farm animals. I do not think that is even accounted for in the calculation of the carbon footprint of meat and dairy. I think the methane emissions just put the emissions of meat and dairy through the roof by itself because methane has about 26 times more warming potential than carbon dioxide.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
I set out in this thread to investigate the original claim of the OP. I did not know where that journey of investigation would take me. But as i said in the first few pages, I wanted to bring the facts and finding to this forum. Totally without bias. I think i have achieved that and i am still achieving it. All i have got in return is a lack of support from a small minority. Eating meat and dairy is a public health issue, the evidence that i have presented fully supports that.
All my facts and figures can be independently checked, my sources for information are the best and my interpretation is fair. I am willing to ignore the insult as I believe you are trying to undermine the message that a vegan lifestyle is more environmentally safer, better for human health and is ethically better in terms of cruelty to animals.
But the truth is, I do not mind your silly interventions, I quite like them because if you are prepared to make silly comments, nit-pick at small details and make mountains out of molehills then it reflects bad on you as a troublemaker. Internet speak has a much stronger word such such people.
In the end, there is huge amount of people reading this thread, nearly 17,000 views at my last look who quietly read what my investigation into the meat and dairy industry has to offer. So keep making your comments, I will even quote you every time so that your attitude gets the fullest publicity.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
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