Dairy products are causing cancer.

[Rheghead]

Are we? Have you heard about bovine TB. Our esteemed Westminster govt put the spread down to badgers taking milk (sorry.....cow puss) directly from the udder, or are these scientific studies to be ignored?

That is a bit of a strawman if I have to cast doubt on whether badgers suckle cows to defend the science that shows that dairy is a public health problem. I have looked to substantiate the claim that badgers take milk from cows and I have come up with no evidence. I hope you can provide a link just out of interest.

In any event, even if a badger did take milk from a cow, my assertion that humans are the only animal to drink the milk from another animal still holds true. The reason being is that the cow is not a species, it is a domestic breed purely bred to produce milk for humans. So to enable a badger to suckle milk from a cow requires the century long efforts of humans to make that happen and the opportunism of a wily badger. Not really a natural encounter.

[Rheghead]

Another study which shows dairy products like milk and cheese are associated with a increased risk of developing prostate cancer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11566656

[mi16]

the cow is not a species, it is a domestic breed purely bred to produce milk for humans.

What utter guff

[sids]

the cow is not a species, it is a domestic breed purely bred to produce milk for humans.

And sausages.

[Rheghead]

What utter guff

Incredible that facts are perceived like that.

[mi16]

Incredible that facts are perceived like that.

Are you seriously trying to pass as fact that cattle are bred solely for milk?

[Rheghead]

And I thought that unprocessed red meat was of a lesser threat to human health than processed meat like bacon and burgers etc. But here is a study that shows that eating unprocessed red meat leads to an increased risk of developing diverticulitis, particularly in men

http://gut.bmj.com/content/early/201...e-abcf9a8d5e5f

[mi16]

What is incredible is that you make all these statements that are utter nonsense about Councillors raping cattle and cows bred solely for milk to name but 2, you get called out and then refuse to retract or explain yourself.
If it was posted in jest then fair enough, but I actually think you believe this rubbish you spout.
You were called out as a crank on here last year (not by me) and many defended you.
But for a non crank you sure do display all the hallmarks of a fully paid up moon howling crank extraordinaire.

[Rheghead]

What is incredible is that you make all these statements that are utter nonsense about Councillors raping cattle and cows bred solely for milk to name but 2, you get called out and then refuse to retract or explain yourself.
If it was posted in jest then fair enough, but I actually think you believe this rubbish you spout.
You were called out as a crank on here last year (not by me) and many defended you.
But for a non crank you sure do display all the hallmarks of a fully paid up moon howling crank extraordinaire.

Which of the scientific studies that i have posted are fake or bogus? The science is sound that consumption of meat and milk products increase the the risk of getting cancer. I do not know why you choose to deny that fact.

If you like meat and milk and you choose to run the risk then that is an acceptable position to take. We live in a free country. But to deny the science and call the person who is only trying to raise awareness of the science a 'crank' makes more of a statement about the name-callers than it does about me.

I'm just posting science about a public health issue...

And btw, I never called any councillor a rapist.

[mi16]

Which of the scientific studies that i have posted are fake or bogus? The science is sound that consumption of meat and milk products increase the the risk of getting cancer. I do not know why you choose to deny that fact.

If you like meat and milk and you choose to run the risk then that is an acceptable position to take. We live in a free country. But to deny the science and call the person who is only trying to raise awareness of the science a 'crank' makes more of a statement about the name-callers than it does about me.

I'm just posting science about a public health issue...

And btw, I never called any councillor a rapist.

no one is discrediting the studies you posted, However many of your own words are bemusing at best

You obviously do not know the process of where your food comes from.

Anyone who tries to artificially inseminate a cow which is unrestrained in a field will get short shrift from the cow. And anyone who stands beside a cow that is restrained in a rape rack during that artificial insemination knows full well the displeasure that the animal goes through. That isn't consent to sex, it is rape.

councillor Willie Mackay makes his living from AI of cattle, therefore you did call him a rapist.

[Rheghead]

no one is discrediting the studies you posted, However many of your own words are bemusing at best

now that is rubbish, there has been nothing but opposition and denial for the studies that I have posted.

councillor Willie Mackay makes his living from AI of cattle, therefore you did call him a rapist.

Councillor MacKay may well make a living from AI of cattle but i never accused him of being a rapist, I never even mentioned him, somebody else did. And it doesn't matter what I think to myself about Councillor Mackay, my thoughts are my own.

And one thing is for sure, anyone who has studied the craft of AI will know what a 'Rape Rack' is. It is a standard term that is commonly used within the AI industry to describe the restraining stall that is used to inseminate cows. And yes they do need to be restrained because they try to fight back. It is not my words, it is the meat industry's words for the device.

I'd also like to add to this conversation that if I induced ejaculation on an animal, any animal, then i would be accused of animal abuse, but this process happens all the time on farms up and down the country on bulls. Why do we deplore such activities to other animals but when it comes to the meat and dairy industry then it is absolutely acceptable? That is a double standard.

[mi16]

Read you own words, you may not have said his name but by definition of his career and your thoughts on it, you have called him a rapist.

i have witnessed the AI process on many occasions, performed by Mr Mackay, and not once has the animal been secured in a cattle crate, each time they were tied by the neck as normal in the byre.
i wouldn't say the cows were comfortable with the process but they certainly didn't show any signs of distress.

[Rheghead]

Read you own words, you may not have said his name but by definition of his career and your thoughts on it, you have called him a rapist.

i have witnessed the AI process on many occasions, performed by Mr Mackay, and not once has the animal been secured in a cattle crate, each time they were tied by the neck as normal in the byre.
i wouldn't say the cows were comfortable with the process but they certainly didn't show any signs of distress.

I read my words, I didn't call him a rapist and you cannot substantiate that. I didn't mention him. You are putting words into my mouth. And it is so shallow of you, i thought you were better than this?

The AI process is uncomfortable for the animal, they feel pain as we do. You are only defending what he does because you seem to be attached to the industry in some way, I would expect that though.

[Rheghead]

Here is another cohort study that suggests that dairy product consumption may be associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18398033

[mi16]

Ok I obviously misunderstood your post and I apologise for that.
so just to ensure we are 100% crystal clear on this, you do not consider AI of cattle to be rape then?

[sids]

so just to ensure we are 100% crystal clear on this, you do not consider AI of cattle to be rape then?

Give him a chance. A man who never changes his mind is a man who never thinks.

[Rheghead]

Ok I obviously misunderstood your post and I apologise for that.
so just to ensure we are 100% crystal clear on this, you do not consider AI of cattle to be rape then?

Think of it this way...

Once upon a time, the UK was involved in the human slave trade. It was perfectly legal to whip, rape and even murder your property if you so wished. It was perfectly legal. The majority of people in the British Isles even condoned those actions as being the rights of Man, Freedom of choice, Liberty!!

But they kept on murdering, raping, their property. Much in the same way modern farming practices are carried out today, we have industrialised the abuse of animals. (I understand that after they keep a cow constantly pregnant for ~5 years then they can become 'downers'. The strain of constant pregnancy on their bodies causes them to collapse, and the thanks they get for making the farmer some money is a trip to the slaughter house for dogmeat or cheap burgers. )

Now, the anti slavery movement didn't accuse the slave owners of rape and murder because it was perfectly legal, they just thought what the slave owners were doing was unethical. It was just rape and murder to their own conciences. It was still rape and murder though, I bet they got accused of ramming their opinions on to others as well. The holocaust of slaves is thankfully all but over, the holocaust for the animals is still going on.

However, thousands of new plant-based people are turning to a more healthier and ethical lifestyle. I believe that we are going through a period of enlightenment towards the plight of animals within our care...or lack of care, depending on your point of view.

Thoughout this thread, i have established that the meat (aka dairy) industry is selling us food which is not conducive to our health. I have established from science studies that the human body has a 100% herbivore physiology and the consumption of meat triggers an auto immune response. Our bodies are telling us that eating animals and their secretions are not good for us, especially not from an evolutionary aspect.

How did we get into this situation? Well my opinion (backed up by lots of evidence) is that as the spread of mankind went northwards then animal husbandry was essential because fruits and natural food vegetation was much scarcer in northern latitudes. so although I do not deny that meat and dairy has played a role in getting us to where we are now in our history, it will surely be the end of us if we carry on as we are. In the days of fresh fruit and veg in the supermarket and better market garden techniques, arable farming practices then we really do not need to eat animals.

What i also wish to explore, is what the meat industry is doing to our planet. I believe that eating animals is an irresponsible lifestyle choice that is detrimental to human health and the environment for other species who have a right to live on this planet as well.


I will do further investigation to give you (again) the best scientific evidence to suggest the meat industry is causing climate change, ocean dead zones, biodiversity depletion and deforestation on a massive scale.

I have seen compelling anectdotals that it takes 18 times more land to support an omnivore diet than a plant-based diet. To my mind, eating plants sounds like the most responsible thing to do in terms of our health and our planet. I expect denials on that, but when facts are in the face, it makes us look silly to deny it.

When does it stop?

When do we ask ourselves, as a species, that what we are doing to the planet through eating animals is also denying ourselves of wild land to visit, habitats for wild animals? Normally we love the thought of wild land to explore and enjoy. We love clean water and a rich biodiversity to admire.

But do we just wake up one morning and lament the loss of the jaguar? the fox? the elephants? The tree frogs? The natural oak woodland? Are we happy that the vast majority of land in the UK is a farm? Have we ever put the connection between the loss of meadow butterflies with the loss of meadows due to farming livestock?

And all because we say 'well i like my meat too much to do anything else'. 'I love my cheese and i can't do without it. ' Vegans are idealistic hippies who are not living in the real world. Is that the real us saying those things, or is it the casomorphin which makes us addicted to dairy products and meat?

While some people are saying those things, others are saying 'I cannot condone a lifestyle that doesn't involve the killing of animals because I make so much money out of it'.

It is illogical to destroy the planet because we cannot take responsibility for our own lifestyle choices. That is either lazy, irresponsible or morally bankrupt or all three.

[mi16]

Ok I obviously misunderstood your post and I apologise for that.
so just to ensure we are 100% crystal clear on this, you do not consider AI of cattle to be rape then?

sorry Reg my question is a very easy one to answer, a yes or no is all that is required.
Will you answer the question, or continue to avoid it?

[Fulmar]

Yes, for now'
Do you not realise how ridiculous and frankly, puerile this comment is, on a parr with many others that you have written on here?
I feel sorry for you. By your own admission, the reaction to your postings is hostile and mocking and you are not winning any converts. This is because the folk on here are perfectly capable of evaluating evidence and coming up with a different conclusion to your own and sensibly deciding what they wish to eat and you simply cannot stand that, can you? So to use your own tactic, why do you keep on doing it? Answer, you are doing it for yourself, not because you somehow want to save people in your own distorted view. Why do you feel the necessity to always come back and have the last word? Clearly, even such negative reaction is affording you some kind of satisfaction and answering an obsessive need in you. Maybe you should look at the rest of your life and what is lacking in it. I have vegan and vegetarian friends who do not behave as you do. They are friends who come round for dinner sometimes- it's not a problem to me to cook for them and what we all eat or do not eat is not the topic of conversation.
I challenge you to give this up. I don't think that you will or that you are able to but for the sake of your mental health, you would be advised to consider it.
As for me well, in the immortal words of Rhett Butler: 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn' and I'm out of here.

[Rheghead]

sorry Reg my question is a very easy one to answer, a yes or no is all that is required.
Will you answer the question, or continue to avoid it?

I've answered, I have my thoughts to my own. What the dairy industry does is unethical. Cows are more of a someone than a something. We saw on telly recently how abandoned cows on Orkney can regain some kind of normality to life and build relationships with their own herd members. They protect their young and once again live noble lives as wild animals again. That is a life. Cattle in the meat industry are denied this luxury. They are property to be abused as commodities for our own greed.