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Thread: Dairy products are causing cancer.

  1. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    So does this mean if we eat more meat then we will have a healthier heart?
    No... It means that eating meat won't necessarily lead to an unhealthy heart, lots of other factors need to be taken into consideration..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    EDIT:

    Oh dear...
    One idea is that intestinal worms - which dampen immune reactions - could be more common and this may help protect the heart.
    That is one hypothesis, if proven to be true then maybe we will see live intestinal worm supplements being made available for meat eaters.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  2. #522
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    One idea is that intestinal worms - which dampen immune reactions - could be more common and this may help protect the heart. ..
    It says "one idea," if you take time to read what you quoted.

    Is it the only idea?

  3. #523
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    If you are truly concerned about peoples health then instead of lecturing people on the evils of meat then why not try on educate them on sensible meat eating. If history teaches us anything it is that prohibition does not work.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  4. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    If you are truly concerned about peoples health then instead of lecturing people on the evils of meat then why not try on educate them on sensible meat eating. If history teaches us anything it is that prohibition does not work.
    If it was just about health then I would.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  5. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    If it was just about health then I would.

    Well you just keep banging your head against a brick wall then.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    Well you just keep banging your head against a brick wall then.
    Only if you are not open to change, then you will think I am banging my head against a wall but I am not here to win arguments, it is about providing the best evidence for food choices that is good for health, environment and animal welfare. There is a hard core of people who are deeply opposed to vegan diets. They do not explain why they are opposed for themselves except that they like the taste of meat and dairy. They certainly do not explain why they are opposed to vegan diets for other people but it may have to do with those being most opposed are linked to the meat and dairy industry. They are only a small number of posters but the number of people who have read this thread is up to 29,000. That is different viewers not views. With that amount of interest, it is neither boring or uninformative. To be honest, if you are looking for support on this thread for a vegan diet, do you think they would post on this thread considering they would be willing to get abused as much as me? I consider that such abuse just weakens their position, that is why I haven't reported it to admin.

    You just provided a link with very dubious claim about how it could translate to how we could provide food. I asked you a question which you have avoided.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  7. #527

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    If you are truly concerned about peoples health then instead of lecturing people on the evils of meat then why not try on educate them on sensible meat eating. If history teaches us anything it is that prohibition does not work.
    Al Capone may disagree. I like the idea of it 1930's style speakeasy's knocking out illicit mixed grills.

  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithp View Post
    Al Capone may disagree. I like the idea of it 1930's style speakeasy's knocking out illicit mixed grills.
    It won't last long, eating the pork crackling will give the game away.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  9. #529
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    A major dairy in the US has stopped dairy production at one of their plants after 90 years to produce plant-based milk due to big demand.

    http://www.riseofthevegan.com/blog/d...-to-plant-milk
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  10. #530
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    Carnage is a hilarious BBC vegan comedy documentary which tells the story of a UK that has gone completely vegan in the year 2067. We look back at the damage that we were doing to ourselves, the planet and the animals when we used to eat meat and dairy. It can be currently viewed on BBC Iplayer.



    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7636871.html
    Last edited by Rheghead; 20-Mar-17 at 22:06.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Carnage is a hilarious BBC vegan comedy documentary which tells the story of a UK that has gone completely vegan in the year 2067. We look back at the damage that we were doing to ourselves, the planet and the animals when we used to eat meat and dairy. It can be currently viewed on BBC Iplayer.



    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...-a7636871.html
    We're holding our sides.

  12. #532

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    there's no problem with the veganism, it's only when you try and use science for propaganda that raises my hackles.

  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Howie View Post
    there's no problem with the veganism, it's only when you try and use science for propaganda that raises my hackles.
    I'm completely fine with using science as propaganda, I get worried when people use propaganda as science.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  14. #534
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    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  15. #535

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post

    Look out your window and see the storm clouds gathering over Reay. This thread has more life than Lazarus.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrock View Post
    I never get surprised how far people will misrepresent vegan diets to divert away from the environmental impact of livestock production. Honestly, lettuce farming is the new pan-global threat to human existence?

    Journalism at its most humorous.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  17. #537
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    so please enlighten us as to what type of fertilizer a farm will use to grow all the vegan nibbles.

  18. #538

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    I expect it will be well rotted, animal dung! Nice and organic and full of composting worms. Oh, oops, sorry! Animal dung is of course, not allowed.

  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
    so please enlighten us as to what type of fertilizer a farm will use to grow all the vegan nibbles.
    That is a good question and one which needs to be addressed.

    But first you need to understand that the reason that we need huge amounts of fertiliser in the first place is that we currently ask too much from our soils because we grow food stocks for animals which we kill for meat. It takes about 10kg of plant protein to produce 1kg of animal protein. We have this romantic idea of farming where animal dung provides the only cycle of nutrients for fields, nothing could be further from the truth as we need the animal fertiliser and chemical fertilisers just to keep the soils from degrading. We need to break this mental lock. When you consider that about 80% of crops in this country are grown for meat production then in a meateater's world we are hugely more dependent on animal derived fertiliser (Manure, bone and blood) and artificial fertilisers (chemicals). It takes a lot more land (and fertiliser) to support a meateater's diet than a vegan world. The Vegan Society conservatively estimate that we need a third of the current land to support a vegan population and some studies estimate we need an eighteenth of the land. My understanding is that the first scenario (Vegan Society) relies on the soil's natural ability to renew its nutrients over time using crop rotation and other land management techniques. And the 18th of the land estimate relies more on intensive market garden farming techniques using chemical fertilisers. I think the truth will be somewhere in the middle. With a combination of moderate chemical fertilisers and land management, a vegan population would be fully fed on an agricultural land footprint of much reduced size, say, a 6th of what we see now. That would leave a huge land area which could go back to its natural pre-holocene state. The land would once again be able to support a huge range of natural flora and fauna. We could again be guest spectators to seeing large migrations of big animals, large predators, insects like butterflies would also return. We could have our natural forests back to provide shelter for birds and large beasts alike. Large forests breathe in CO2 and cool the atmosphere helping climate change in a natural way without use of wind turbines. The list of benefits are virtually endless. But we don't have this spectacle because people are unwilling to have a vegan diet, their thirst for blood means more to them than a safe natural future for their children to inherit.
    Last edited by Rheghead; 29-May-17 at 19:22.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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