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Thread: Indy 2

  1. #81
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    But the majority of us don't want to leave the UK
    W.A.T.P.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    If we had left the UK the first time around then we woudn't have been in this pickle. Scotland would have got what it wanted and England and Wales too.

    Another if, but your quite correct in your assumption, the only democratic way forward as I see it is abide by the result of the Brexit and go whole hog for independence face the future as a new nation.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    There appears to be be a lot of misinformation by part time armchair lawyers flying around me included as to what the truth is, it's looking like anyone's guess.
    From http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/euro/adoption/index_en.htm

    Before a Member State can adopt the euro, it must fulfil certain economic and legal criteria. The economic ‘convergence criteria’ are designed to ensure that a Member State's economy is sufficiently prepared for adoption of the single currency and can integrate smoothly into the monetary regime of the euro area. Legal convergence requires that national legislation, in particular the national central bank and monetary issues, is compatible with the Treaty

    So legal convergence appears to need a Central Bank and economic convergence is as below.

    States must be a member of the ERM2 system, without causing severe tensions, for at least two years prior to Euro membership.

    States must have a budget deficit of less than 3% GDP;

    States must have government debt of less than 60% their GDP, or be on a declining trend;

    States must have inflation within 1.5% the average figure for the three countries with the lowest inflation in the EU;

    States must have a long term interest rate not more than 2% above the average figure for the three best performing member states in terms of price stability;

    Lithuania started the process in 2004 and was finally allowed to adopt the Euro in 2014, and a further six states who joined the EU at the same time still haven't met the convergence requirements in 2016, so it isn't an in today in the Eurozone tomorrow set up as so many seem to think. We couldn't even do it on the back of the UK already having met the criteria, because the UK hasn't.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    But the majority of us don't want to leave the UK

    Getting the impression that it is becoming less of a majority as time goes on. Possibly a knee-jerk reaction to Brexit, but the latest two polls since then make the majority for independence now.
    Last edited by Oddquine; 26-Jun-16 at 17:54.

  5. #85
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    I'm glad to see that Nicola Sturgeon is showing a huge amount of leadership for scotland during this awkward period, there's an absolute vacuum of leadership in Westminster, Labour and conservatives are destroying themselves. Caroline Lucas is at least doing her bit to consolidate the situation. Not that surprised that there was no post-brexit plan and they're all in absolute chaos, it seems that the protest vote has actually materialised and they didn't exactly plan for it. Total stupidity in England and Wales. Time to get rid.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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    And wisdom to know the difference.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddquine View Post
    Getting the impression that it is becoming less of a majority as time goes on. Possibly a knee-jerk reaction to Brexit, but the latest two polls since then make the majority for independence now.
    2014 was the only poll that actually means anything re independence
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  7. #87
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    I don't think anyone has considered the beneficial symbiotic relationship between Scotland and the rUK in a post independence landscape. rUK businesses would have easy geographical access to the single market by investing in Scotland and their cross-border businesses would have greater cohesion because of the shared cultural links and language that we've had over the last 300 years.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    I don't think anyone has considered the beneficial symbiotic relationship between Scotland and the rUK in a post independence landscape. rUK businesses would have easy geographical access to the single market by investing in Scotland and their cross-border businesses would have greater cohesion because of the shared cultural links and language that we've had over the last 300 years.
    I am sure the remainder of the UK will be fighting with each other to trade with the breakaway nation.
    W.A.T.P.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    I am sure the remainder of the UK will be fighting with each other to trade with the breakaway nation.
    I suppose it's a bit like the way the remainder of the EU will be fighting with each other to trade with the breakaway nation.
    “We're trapped in the belly of this horrible machine....
    And the machine is bleeding to death."


  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    I am sure the remainder of the UK will be fighting with each other to trade with the breakaway nation.
    Eh? Are you serious? We've just broke away from the biggest trading block on the planet and you are saying that!! Be careful of what you are stirring up because the EU could easily take that tone with England and Wales and that would be disastrous.

    Michael Gove would say: When we get through the bumps in the road and when the dust settles....yadda yadda
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Eh? Are you serious? We've just broke away from the biggest trading block on the planet and you are saying that!! Be careful of what you are stirring up because the EU could easily take that tone with England and Wales and that would be disastrous.

    Michael Gove would say: When we get through the bumps in the road and when the dust settles....yadda yadda

    Be careful what I am stirring, who do you thing I am Angela Merkel?
    I am absolutely sure that the EU will be in no rush to buy British produce now, and I am equally sure that should we break from rUK they will be in no rush to buy Scotch Beef, Scotch Lamb or whatever else.
    Last edited by mi16; 26-Jun-16 at 22:22.
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  12. #92
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    Reuters are reporting that Boris Johnson says;and a post Brexit poll shows no appetite for a second independence referendum. That is that then. Independence is dead in the water.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br..._medium=Social
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    Reuters are reporting that Boris Johnson says;and a post Brexit poll shows no appetite for a second independence referendum. That is that then. Independence is dead in the water.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br..._medium=Social
    But in the body of the article, it also says - The poll of 1,002 people, conducted for the Daily Record and Daily Mirror on June 25, also showed that despite not favoring holding another referendum, if one were to be held immediately Scots would back a breakaway from the rest of Britain. Survation said 47 percent were in favor and 41.2 percent against.

    Other polls, for the Sunday Times and the Sunday Post, seemingly have the YES camp with 54% and 59% respectively.....though that may just be a knee-jerk reaction to Brexit. I suspect, though, if the Westminster government and the official opposition continue to be conspicuous by their absence, leaving the UK without even a plan A for dealing with the result of the referendum, that could well rise.

    The Economist has an article in which it says Apart from ashen-faced, mumbled statements from the Vote Leave headquarters on Friday, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have also ducked the limelight; Mr Johnson is meeting friends and allies today, June 26th, at his house near Oxford in what are believed to be talks about his impending leadership bid. Neither seems to have the foggiest as to what should happen next. Today Mr Gove’s wife committed to Facebook the hope that “clever people” might offer to “lend their advice and expertise.” And Mr Johnson’s sister, Rachel, tweeted: “Everyone keeps saying ‘we are where we are’ but nobody seems to have the slightest clue where that is.”
    and also ......
    The Leavers, who disagreed on what Brexit should look like, do not think it is their responsibility to set out a path. They reckon that falls to Number 10 (where they have appeared in public, it has mostly been to discard the very pledges on which they won the referendum). Number 10, however, seems to have done little planning for this eventuality. It seems transfixed by the unfolding chaos; reluctant to formulate answers to the Brexiteers’ unanswered questions. As Mr Cameron reportedly told aides on June 24th when explaining his decision to resign: “Why should I do all the hard <word meaning manure> ?”

    Interesting times indeed http://www.economist.com/blogs/bageh.../06/anarchy-uk

  14. #94

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    Did you listen to George Osbourne on radio 4 Today this morning? I think that shows that there has indeed been 'planning' (following on too from Mark Carney's statement last week) so I totally disagree with you! George has obviously been hitting the phones all weekend anyway! And no, I am not a Tory.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Scotland's first minister has said a second independence referendum is "highly likely" after the UK voted to leave the EU. The Scottish cabinet would meet on Saturday to discuss its next steps.
    So, the argument for Remain was "We're better off in a close trading block with Europe, because 45% of the UK's trade is with the EU". Fair enough. The argument for becoming a small European province is "We are better off in a close trading block where just 15% of Scotland's trade goes, and closing off the remaining 85%". I have a feeling that logic is not with you there.

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