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Thread: Indy 2

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    Crikey boys! Talk about getting ahead of yourself!

    Theres a a panel of top advisers being assembled from across the political spectrum - cross party and both sides of the constitutional debate. The economic situation is different today than it was 2 years ago. Let's see what they say.

    Tonights antidote to the poison that exists today comes courtesy of London's pride event.


    http://www.itv.com/news/london/2016-...-the-question/

    Are you saying this information is now needed or the previous information is out of date ? or there was no previous information on indy 1.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cptdodger View Post
    I voted NO to Independence as did the MAJORITY.

    I voted to LEAVE the EU as did the MAJORITY.

    "Majority"
    can be used to specify the voting requirement, as in a "majority vote". A majority vote is more than half of the votes cast.


    Wales reached the quarter-finals of Euro 2016 as Gareth McAuley's own goal gave them victory over Northern Ireland in a tense last-16 encounter. Perfectly fair game, Wales won the match fair and square. But shall we just use the logic of the Remain Camp and the Yes voters (Scotland) here for a minute - Northern Ireland should demand a replay and keep demanding replays until they win - or is that just not fair ?
    This would appear how democracy works in 2016, funny old country the UK, how we expect to be respected by other democracies beats me. I thought these antics were for certain Mugabe or Amin type countries.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  3. #63
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    I think most older brexiteers were voting for Bygone Britain but they're waking up to a Brave New world and a second indy ref is the first likely consequence as it looks as if the scottish sun and the Daily Record seem to be edging towards backing independence, we live in interesting times...
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    Are you saying this information is now needed or the previous information is out of date ? or there was no previous information on indy 1.
    Well of course I'm saying some of the previous information is out of date. The EU stuff unsurprisingly, the oil calculations - let's have some new ones based on new figures. The ones we had were right at the time but need to be redone for today's information, the argument over currency needs to be sorted out once and for all but as I recall the governor of the Bank of England did say after the Indy ref that of course Scotland could have used the so I guess that one is pretty much dealt with.

    If if we are having Indy ref 2 and it's not guaranteed remember, it is simply on the table - then we need new information.

  5. #65

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    The pound would surely now be the currency of the remainder of the UK seeing as how everything has changed with the vote. If Scotland becomes independent and stays in the EU then it will be the euro for us, I feel. The queen will not be the head of state anymore either, I would imagine.

  6. #66
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    The queen is the queen of Scotland too. She would stay for now. The move to a republic would need to be voted on by the public.

    I'm more incredulous that we now appear to not only have no functioning Government, but no bloody opposition either. It appears that after telling us that Scotland would not be able to stand on our own two feet it is only Scotland that is actually doing so.

    For goodness sake WM get a grip!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    The queen is the queen of Scotland too. She would stay for now. The move to a republic would need to be voted on by the public.

    I'm more incredulous that we now appear to not only have no functioning Government, but no bloody opposition either. It appears that after telling us that Scotland would not be able to stand on our own two feet it is only Scotland that is actually doing so.

    For goodness sake WM get a grip!

    Or fall flat on its face/arse depending which way the wind blows.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
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  8. #68
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    So nic can veto Thursday's vote by refusing to remove EU legislation from Scotland.
    things are getting interesting now.
    W.A.T.P.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    So nic can veto Thursday's vote by refusing to remove EU legislation from Scotland.
    things are getting interesting now.
    What vote is this, have you a link ?.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    What vote is this, have you a link ?.
    She was on daily politics, where the presenter put to her that article 50 has to be agreed upon by all devolved parliaments to remove EU legislations. She then Agreed that by not agreeing to it would effectively veto the whole referendum
    apparantly legal brains have been through it and agreed.

    she said of course she would explore this option
    the presenter then stated that this would cause fury with the leave voters, her response was that it would be on a par with the fury in Scotland over the vote and that her duty is to look after Scotland's best interests.

    i am sure you can watch it back on the on demand sites, failing that Bbc news are running with it
    W.A.T.P.

  11. #71
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    I am no fan of sturgeon but you have to admire her pair of massive brass swinging balls
    W.A.T.P.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    She was on daily politics, where the presenter put to her that article 50 has to be agreed upon by all devolved parliaments to remove EU legislations. She then Agreed that by not agreeing to it would effectively veto the whole referendum
    apparantly legal brains have been through it and agreed.

    she said of course she would explore this option
    the presenter then stated that this would cause fury with the leave voters, her response was that it would be on a par with the fury in Scotland over the vote and that her duty is to look after Scotland's best interests.

    i am sure you can watch it back on the on demand sites, failing that Bbc news are running with it
    My opinion is that veto (if it does exist) is going nowhere rapidly on the basis that it would be a massive act of the tail wagging the body. It is absolutely counter to the wishes of England and Wales and whereas it would be a small sticking plaster on a large festering wound it will only serve to orchestrate more ill feeling across these islands.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    My opinion is that veto (if it does exist) is going nowhere rapidly on the basis that it would be a massive act of the tail wagging the body. It is absolutely counter to the wishes of England and Wales and whereas it would be a small sticking plaster on a large festering wound it will only serve to orchestrate more ill feeling across these islands.
    It would be nuclear for the rest of the U.K., but that's not Scotland's concern
    W.A.T.P.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    My opinion is that veto (if it does exist) is going nowhere rapidly on the basis that it would be a massive act of the tail wagging the body. It is absolutely counter to the wishes of England and Wales and whereas it would be a small sticking plaster on a large festering wound it will only serve to orchestrate more ill feeling across these islands.
    Don't think there is a veto. Westminster has written into the 1999 Scotland Act that the Sewel Convention does not affect the power of the UK Parliament to make laws for Scotland, although it would normally legislate on devolved matters with the consent of the Scottish Parliament. Surely nobody really thinks that Westminster would leave a loophole that would let Scotland stop UK-wide legislation?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16 View Post
    It would be nuclear for the rest of the U.K., but that's not Scotland's concern

    I think this is quite farcical, why bother taking part in the referendum if your not going to abide by the result, I can see indy 2 being triggered by England and a UK vote been taken on the issue, quite frankly it should be seeing as Scotland appears to have a vito on a legitimate referendum.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    To become a fledged new EU member or possibly a recycled part old member all the above would be applied plus the Euro currency to bring the Scottish economy up to scratch, or so it appears.

    Don't think so.....if all of the above ie A - Massive taxation increase B - Massive public spending cuts C - Combination of A & B were to be put in force, we wouldn't be allowed to be in the Euro, even if we were in the process of joining it, if that knocked the convergence criteria to pot.....so Buckley's chance of it being forced on Scotland at the whim of the EU.

    Before you can join the Euro officially, you have to meet the convergence requirements, one of which is a two year successful membership of ERM II. The UK failed its membership of ERM II, and Sweden had a referendum in which it voted not to join it. Therefore the only two EU countries which are not either in the Eurozone or in ERM II and working towards convergence criteria to join the euro are Sweden and the UK..and the UK did try. If we didn't want to join the Euro....all we'd have to do is have a referendum as Sweden did and not join ERM II. And first, anyway, we'd have to have a central independent national bank, as far as I can see.....so the euro wouldn't be any kind of an option for a few years, unless we were to use it informally, as I suppose we can, just as any country can use sterling and the dollar.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddquine View Post
    Don't think so.....if all of the above ie A - Massive taxation increase B - Massive public spending cuts C - Combination of A & B were to be put in force, we wouldn't be allowed to be in the Euro, even if we were in the process of joining it, if that knocked the convergence criteria to pot.....so Buckley's chance of it being forced on Scotland at the whim of the EU.

    Before you can join the Euro officially, you have to meet the convergence requirements, one of which is a two year successful membership of ERM II. The UK failed its membership of ERM II, and Sweden had a referendum in which it voted not to join it. Therefore the only two EU countries which are not either in the Eurozone or in ERM II and working towards convergence criteria to join the euro are Sweden and the UK..and the UK did try. If we didn't want to join the Euro....all we'd have to do is have a referendum as Sweden did and not join ERM II. And first, anyway, we'd have to have a central independent national bank, as far as I can see.....so the euro wouldn't be any kind of an option for a few years, unless we were to use it informally, as I suppose we can, just as any country can use sterling and the dollar.

    There appears to be be a lot of misinformation by part time armchair lawyers flying around me included as to what the truth is, it's looking like anyone's guess.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  18. #78
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    patience.

    The chance of Scotland vetoing the Brexit is non existent. As non existent as WM vetoing a 2nd indyref if the SG votes for one.

    Abiding by by the result would work if some areas of Scotland had been leave but none of them did.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    patience.

    The chance of Scotland vetoing the Brexit is non existent. As non existent as WM vetoing a 2nd indyref if the SG votes for one.

    Abiding by by the result would work if some areas of Scotland had been leave but none of them did.

    The point is Sturgeon is abiding by what she says is Scotland's vote on the referendum to remain yet reneging on the UK referendum by threats of a vito, cake and eat it springs to mind with a sour grape filling. It is not looking very good morally for her or her SG.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

  20. #80
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    If we had left the UK the first time around then we woudn't have been in this pickle. Scotland would have got what it wanted and England and Wales too.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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