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Thread: Is the EU referendum just a giant sham

  1. #1
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    Default Is the EU referendum just a giant sham

    The referendum has turned into the biggest sham in modern history and is as big as the Iran War in lies and misleading chat. Why are we voting anyway as it's just a conservative con job to fool the country and stop us catching on to the dirty dealing done in Westminster. Smoke , mirrors and snake oil salesmen one and all.
    Can anyone show some money figures on what the other countries pay unto the EU pot and what they get out .

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    It's a mockery,


    of a travesty,


    of two mockeries of a sham!

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    if its a sham, why have the Scottish Parliament voted by a majority to stay in the EU ?
    Last edited by golach; 26-May-16 at 20:22.
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

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    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    why have the Scottish Parliament voted by a majority to say in the EU ?
    Because they want to stay in the EU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sids View Post
    Because they want to stay in the EU.
    My point exactly, the SNP the all seeing government, think that Dozys sham EU, is a good thing 😂
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

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    There is a spectrum of opinion.

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    Not sure if it's a sham but a stitch-up it is for sure, the Labour Party/SNP/Cons/Lib whatnot's/bank of England/IMF/IFS/ and dozens more all have the same hymn sheet from downing street, I find that strange word for word almost. Either they are right or as I say it is a clever stitch-up, I believe the latter.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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    Quote Originally Posted by dozy View Post
    Can anyone show some money figures on what the other countries pay unto the EU pot and what they get out .
    Taken from here: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/b...02000-2014.xls

    Here's how much each country pays into the EU 'pot', andhow much they take out. Numbers in million euros per year

    Germany IN - 29,143.0 OUT - 11,484.5
    France IN - 20,967.7 OUT - 13,479.1
    Italy IN - 15,888.6 OUT - 10,695.2
    United Kingdom IN - 14,072.3 OUT - 6,984.7
    Spain IN - 11,111.0 OUT - 11,538.5
    Netherlands IN - 8,372.7 OUT - 2,014.4
    Sweden IN - 4,294.3 OUT - 1,691.0
    Belgium IN - 5,232.7 OUT - 7,044.3
    Poland IN - 3,954.6 OUT - 17,436.1
    Austria IN - 2,869.5 OUT - 1,572.6
    Denmark IN - 2,507.6 OUT - 1,511.7
    Greece IN - 1,949.8 OUT - 7,095.0
    Finland IN - 1,904.1 OUT - 1,061.9
    Portugal IN - 1,747.9 OUT - 4,943.0
    Ireland IN - 1,650.6 OUT - 1,563.1
    Romania IN - 1,458.9 OUT - 5,943.9
    Czech Republic IN - 1,506.7 OUT - 4,377.2
    Hungary IN - 995.8 OUT - 6,620.2
    Slovakia IN - 720.2 OUT - 1,668.8
    Bulgaria IN - 460.5 OUT - 2,255.4
    Croatia IN - 429.8 OUT - 584.3
    Slovenia IN - 385.0 OUT - 1,142.5
    Lithuania IN - 384.7 OUT - 1,885.9
    Latvia IN - 270.0 OUT - 1,062.2
    Luxembourg IN - 246.2 OUT - 1,713.9
    Estonia IN - 200.4 OUT - 667.6
    Cyprus IN - 160.6 OUT - 272.9
    Malta IN - 76.1 OUT - 254.9
    Last edited by theone; 27-May-16 at 12:22.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

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    That would appear to point out 7 complete mugs 1 or 2 about evens and 18 very happy "European" countries. Provided you believe the audit.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    That would appear to point out 7 complete mugs 1 or 2 about evens and 18 very happy "European" countries. Provided you believe the audit.
    That would be the "outers" viewpoint.

    The "inner" would say the country gets more through other means, trade etc, by being in the EU.

    Whilst there's clear benefits for Germany, for example as a net exporter, in subsidising the rest of europe, I'd like to see some good arguments for and against the UK doing the same.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

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    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post
    That would be the "outers" viewpoint.

    The "inner" would say the country gets more through other means, trade etc, by being in the EU.

    Whilst there's clear benefits for Germany, for example as a net exporter, in subsidising the rest of Europe, I'd like to see some good arguments for and against the UK doing the same.

    How about cutting out the club fees rules regulations and every one trades with one and other with no tariffs imposed each country standing on it's own merits.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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    I have a question and it's not if the EU referendum is a Sham or a Scam. Do you think DC is smarter than we give him credit for ,has he got both end fighting against the middle. Has he by deviding his party into Leave and Stay groups he's taken up both sides of the argument pushing Labour into standing with the Tories yet again. Which ever way the Labour Party went they were covered and sidelined. He's even won over some Scots with the stay vote and promise of a NO referendum . You've got to take you're hat of to a quality of the man as the best snake oil salesman in modern times. There's no need to sent warships to the Med ,Cameron can walk on water so just get him to part the seas as his next trick. He done the Lids and now Labour, what's in store for the SNP. It certainly won't be a explanation of the 341,000 pensioner postal votes in the referendum that were counted for the NO side but no such mumbers had signed up to the Scottish NHS or to the DWP or transferred details of a change of address to the Banks or other bodies and by the way the Electoral Commission agrees with theses findings.

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    I think if we leave the EU then we'd be leaving it up to the Conservative party to draw up legislation on worker's rights, fishing, agriculture etc etc. But ho hey, they'll give 350 million per week extra to the NHS like they've always wanted to do if it wasn't for the EU.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    I think if we leave the EU then we'd be leaving it up to the Conservative party to draw up legislation on worker's rights, fishing, agriculture etc etc. But ho hey, they'll give 350 million per week extra to the NHS like they've always wanted to do if it wasn't for the EU.
    i just find it strange that it's a one unionist party in house fight ,it makes no sense. The unionist state that if Scotland wanted Ref 2 they would have to get a huge number of folk to call for it ,but this fight they can change the rules to suit . I totally agree that Tory party are well known for saying one thing and doing you the dirty next. It's just a pity that Cameron is not on the Leave side but then again he's already knows who's going to win and he ain't Going to be on the losing camp. Funny thing is that the remain camp sounds the same as the NO camp in the Scottish referendum ,it's doom and gloom death and destruction . I can see the good and bad in both arguments, would we be having this referendum if we were still just the old Common market countries. It's seems that the dropping of the fence between us a the Baltic states and the ex Russian/ iron curtain countries have sparked the whole thing off. Here's hoping we all see the best in the folk that will vote in or out, shake it all about .Sorry
    Last edited by dozy; 06-Jun-16 at 20:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theone View Post
    Taken from here: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/library/b...02000-2014.xls

    Here's how much each country pays into the EU 'pot', andhow much they take out. Numbers in million euros per year

    Germany IN - 29,143.0 OUT - 11,484.5
    France IN - 20,967.7 OUT - 13,479.1
    Italy IN - 15,888.6 OUT - 10,695.2
    United Kingdom IN - 14,072.3 OUT - 6,984.7
    Spain IN - 11,111.0 OUT - 11,538.5
    Netherlands IN - 8,372.7 OUT - 2,014.4
    Sweden IN - 4,294.3 OUT - 1,691.0
    Belgium IN - 5,232.7 OUT - 7,044.3
    Poland IN - 3,954.6 OUT - 17,436.1
    Austria IN - 2,869.5 OUT - 1,572.6
    Denmark IN - 2,507.6 OUT - 1,511.7
    Greece IN - 1,949.8 OUT - 7,095.0
    Finland IN - 1,904.1 OUT - 1,061.9
    Portugal IN - 1,747.9 OUT - 4,943.0
    Ireland IN - 1,650.6 OUT - 1,563.1
    Romania IN - 1,458.9 OUT - 5,943.9
    Czech Republic IN - 1,506.7 OUT - 4,377.2
    Hungary IN - 995.8 OUT - 6,620.2
    Slovakia IN - 720.2 OUT - 1,668.8
    Bulgaria IN - 460.5 OUT - 2,255.4
    Croatia IN - 429.8 OUT - 584.3
    Slovenia IN - 385.0 OUT - 1,142.5
    Lithuania IN - 384.7 OUT - 1,885.9
    Latvia IN - 270.0 OUT - 1,062.2
    Luxembourg IN - 246.2 OUT - 1,713.9
    Estonia IN - 200.4 OUT - 667.6
    Cyprus IN - 160.6 OUT - 272.9
    Malta IN - 76.1 OUT - 254.9
    So how do the Brexiters get 350 million a week going to the EU from those figures? That would be an annual 18.2 billion, not 14 billion euros, and the 14 billion euros, anyway, is a gross figure before rebate and monies received from the EU. They couldn't possibly be exaggerating for effect to fool the gullible, could they?
    Last edited by Oddquine; 07-Jun-16 at 13:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddquine View Post
    So how do the Brexiters get 350 million a week going to the EU from those figures? That would be an annual 18.2 billion, not 14 billion euros, and the 14 billion euros, anyway, is a gross figure before rebate and monies received from the EU. They couldn't possibly be exaggerating for effect to fool the gullible, could they?
    We'll end up giving a similar amount to the EU when we leave the EU just to get access to the Single Market. Now if you suggest that we don't want that then that is a real act of self harm to our economy.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    We'll end up giving a similar amount to the EU when we leave the EU just to get access to the Single Market. Now if you suggest that we don't want that then that is a real act of self harm to our economy.

    Come off it, whatever you think do we not have the option of charging them for access to UK markets in return for using theirs, as we purchase more from them perhaps common sense will prevail instead of this stupidity we hear how we will be turned over.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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    In 2015 Citroen/peugeot sales in the UK were 80012/104249 respectively, this is without seat VW and others exporting to us. I used the French figures on purpose as they are the most militant and would not stand for their produce be it cars fresh veg flowers or whatever not being able to be sold to us because of tariffs imposed. Look what happened last week with fuel, they please themselves and blockade the ports at will whenever it suits them, I just cannot see the tariff threat being imposed by them.

    Facts : UK trade with the EU is circa 144 billion exported and 240 billion imported giving a UK deficit of 96 billion. Not only is this trade in favour of the EU countries but they also benefit from up to 50% greater profits selling into the UK market, than in their own markets. From the factual trade figures it can be concluded that the EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexit-how-important-would-uk-trade-be-eu#.V1cakigrKM8

    Now tell me again who has the best bargaining chips ?.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonkatojo View Post
    Come off it, whatever you think do we not have the option of charging them for access to UK markets in return for using theirs, as we purchase more from them perhaps common sense will prevail instead of this stupidity we hear how we will be turned over.
    We only have to look around to see what other non-EU countries are doing to have access to the Single Market and they pay the EU a similar amount to what the UK is doing per capita. Do you think the EU will make the UK exempt from charges out of the kindness of their hearts?
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And wisdom to know the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheghead View Post
    We only have to look around to see what other non-EU countries are doing to have access to the Single Market and they pay the EU a similar amount to what the UK is doing per capita. Do you think the EU will make the UK exempt from charges out of the kindness of their hearts?

    Simple answer nope, just economics as we are the world's 5th largest economy and have a bit more clout when it would come to push and shove or tariff no tariff or size of.
    Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong.
    Muhammad Ali

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