Spittal Hill - Dumbest Place Ever for a Windfarm

[MadPict]

So you would be in favor of windfarms if they were financially neutral?

I am in favour of wind farms in the right place - offshore being one of my preferred choices.

No-one owns the seabed so I guess that would make them financially neutral?

[KittyMay]

....the area taken up by 21 causeymire pylons will prevent 0.5 tonnes of peat growing per year for the benefit of the 85,000 tonnes of CO2 being mitigated. That is a good trade off eh?

As far as I'm aware no-one has a clue what level of CO2 is mitigated by wind energy. Any figures quoted by the wind industry, dti and government are guesstimates at best. There is no mechanism in place to measure displacement of fossil fuels by wind. Makes one wonder why. What an opportunity for the wind industry to silence the anti brigade once and for all.

You are eager to gamble away our landscape, environment and heritage on a wish and a prayer. There are many people who recognise the great value of what we have now and are not convinced by the wind argument. These people simply want to preserve our unique landscapes and protect this county/region from exploitation. As do many others across the length and breadth of this country - and quite rightly so.

Some things are too precious to gamble with - some times it's safer to hedge your bets.

[hilary]

what is your views on the s.n.p.policy on wind farms? will the country side be covered with these turbines ? even more so than with the last government it is a worrisome time,only hope folks dont get too depressed.

[Countryman]

The Ormlie Community Association(OCA) wants to put wind turbines at Shebster, against the wishes of the local residents.OCA members are running a petiton in support of this wind farm, members working for social services are asking their clients to sign the petition when they visit them. How can they be allowed to do this ?

[Tilter]

The Ormlie Community Association(OCA) wants to put wind turbines at Shebster, against the wishes of the local residents.OCA members are running a petiton in support of this wind farm, members working for social services are asking their clients to sign the petition when they visit them. How can they be allowed to do this ?

Countryman,

You have a real problem there. Suggest you start a new thread about OCA/Shebster to get it the attention it needs. I once went to an OCA meeting re its windfarm proposal but couldn't really figure it all out. Perhaps you can explain? I don't understand why you can live in Ormlie and make money off of a windfarm by sticking it in Shebster where no one wants it.

Who is the boss of "members working for social services?" I do know petitions aren't counted if they are against a windfarm. I expect they are probably given credence if they are in support. Anyway, said "members working for social services" need to be stopped. I think there's an Ombudsman to whom you can register a formal complaint? I do know that a neighbour of mine who is a carer was threatened with disciplinary action after being seen distributing "anti-windfarm leaflets" in Halkirk. So what's sauce for the goose is definitely not sauce for the gander.

[Tilter]

No-one owns the seabed so I guess that would make them financially neutral?

I think maybe Moray eels and very odd-looking-to-us-creatures believe they own the seabed?

[Tilter]

As Scotland goes for a mad dash for renewables under an SNP government, the Highlands will be exploited with turbines to make up for its anti nuke manifesto.

You are so right, Rheghead. With you all the way.

[Tilter]

By the way, did you know that the biggest single contribution that you can seriously do to preserve the countryside (and regain lost ecosystem types) and to reduce carbon emissions is simply achieved by changing to a meatfree diet?

Rhegmeister,
You are 100% spot on again here.

[MadPict]

I think maybe Moray eels and very odd-looking-to-us-creatures believe they own the seabed?

I suspect they use wave energy rather than wind....


I dare say someone will raise the point about damaging marine life/sea floor by building offshore wind farms.
Well from what I have seen, the sea has a strong ability to actually populate objects left in the water. Artificial reefs have been created by dumping old cleaned vehicles with life moving in within days of being left in place. Ships have been sunk to provide habitat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_reef

[Tilter]

I suspect they use wave energy rather than wind....


I dare say someone will raise the point about damaging marine life/sea floor by building offshore wind farms.
Well from what I have seen, the sea has a strong ability to actually populate objects left in the water. Artificial reefs have been created by dumping old cleaned vehicles with life moving in within days of being left in place. Ships have been sunk to provide habitat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_reef

You're right of course, but I do think you got my point.

But shouldn't we worry about dolphins/whales/whatever's heads being done in by submarines and the like? Isn't the US Navy killing these creatures that are probably a bit smarter than us?

[rupert]

Putting wind turbines out at sea can almost (but not quite) be as dumb as sticking them on Spittal Hill. I saw a film recently about the numerous wind turbines that have been and will be built just off of the west coast of Norway. They are causing devastating consequences to birds on migrations routes. Also, lots of locals have had their beautiful seascapes ruined. Lets face it these huge whirling monstrosities don't really fit in anywhere.

[Tilter]

Madpict,

Sorry - I forgot to say in last post - I meant danger to sea mammals via pile-driving or whatever you have to do to put in the concrete founds for off-shore turbines - excuse the pun but I'm out of my depth here (waiting to here from Rheghead . . .).

[rupert]

OCA members are running a petiton in support of this wind farm, members working for social services are asking their clients to sign the petition when they visit them. How can they be allowed to do this ?

This sounds highly dodgy to me Countryman - I bet their bosses don't know its happening - maybe you should let them know! The whole issue over OCA and Shebster is an absolute disgrace, if they want wind turbines they should have them in their own back yard not someone else's.

[MadPict]

Putting wind turbines out at sea can almost (but not quite) be as dumb as sticking them on Spittal Hill. I saw a film recently about the numerous wind turbines that have been and will be built just off of the west coast of Norway. They are causing devastating consequences to birds on migrations routes. Also, lots of locals have had their beautiful seascapes ruined. Lets face it these huge whirling monstrosities don't really fit in anywhere.

The wind turbines off the coast of East Anglia are about 20 miles out to sea. They are barely visible from the shore. I know where I would prefer them to be.

Birds are going to be affected wherever they are placed without a doubt.


Re pile driving - I expect it will drive some species out of the area while it is gong on - but will it cause any more distress than the continual drilling for oil and gas in the North Sea?

[Rheghead]

Madpict,

Sorry - I forgot to say in last post - I meant danger to sea mammals via pile-driving or whatever you have to do to put in the concrete founds for off-shore turbines - excuse the pun but I'm out of my depth here (waiting to here from Rheghead . . .).

Well no one has actually quantitated the risk to sea mammals from tidal energy.

[MadPict]

I don't think tidal generators are what Tilter means - it's the wind turbines out at sea.

[Rheghead]

Wind turbines at sea could put certain species of seabirds at risk, out of sight, out of mind must be much better for the environment . Nothing is without an ecological rub except turning off your wasteful appliances.

Solar takes 10-15 years to achieve an economic/energy payback then it will probably need to be replaced due to degradation of the panels.

[rupert]

Wind turbines at sea could put certain species of seabirds at risk, out of sight, out of mind must be much better for the environment . Nothing is without an ecological rub except turning off your wasteful appliances.

What I have never been able to understand is the apparent contradiction in law where it is illegal to harm a protected bird in any way and yet when a windfarm is built if a golden eagle gets minced thats OK.
Harming rare and protected species of birds can never be an acceptable ecological rub.
Spittal Hill windfarm will have a serious effect on a number of rare and protected species, therefore it should never be built. Object now - go to www.spittalwindfarmopposition.co.uk to help save our birds.

[Tilter]

What I have never been able to understand is the apparent contradiction in law where it is illegal to harm a protected bird in any way and yet when a windfarm is built if a golden eagle gets minced thats OK.

Well, it should be a trade-off Rupert. Mince a few birds but get lots of lovely clean renewable energy. Which takes us back to the old saw of turbines not producing enough energy to negate emissions during construction, destruction of habitat, loss of amenity and all that.

No pain no gain. I doubt there will be any way of estimating what sort of ecological damage the installation of tidal schemes will produce till they're up and running. At least they sound like they'd give us a much better return than wind. If we can ever get one up and running but the govt. is not putting enough money into tidal to get the R&D done I believe - it's all going in subsidies to wind.

It's very very worrying Salmond not wanting nuclear for Scotland.

[Rheghead]

What I have never been able to understand is the apparent contradiction in law where it is illegal to harm a protected bird in any way and yet when a windfarm is built if a golden eagle gets minced thats OK.
Harming rare and protected species of birds can never be an acceptable ecological rub.

Millions of birds per year get minced by road traffic including rare species. By your reasoning, cars should be illegal.