Spittal Hill - Dumbest Place Ever for a Windfarm

[peter macdonald]

"I am not condoning in any way the destruction of the anenometer mast in Norfolk - it is pointless vandalism."
Good thats exactly what is was ...and illegal
"However, maybe these people were at the end of their tether the same as the poor farmer who committed suicide. It is just an example of how large scale windfarm proposals (which I believe this one was, twenty odd turbines I think) divides a community which I've no doubt was rubbing along quite nicely before some bright spark had the idea for a windfarm."
Well you seem to be providing an excuse for those events that caused a man to take his life
"maybe these people were at the end of their tether " over what exactly ??
A spoilt view?? A fear that their house prices maybe hit ?? A five minute delay in getting to work because of a lorry backing up??
I dont know what the farmers motives were for wanting the windfarm and its none of my business.. it could be greed or it could have been his last chance to clear debt from the foot and mouth or BSE disasters farmers had .As I said it aint my business ..but there is one thing for sure it was not worth his life

After all these protesters could always move on somewhere else which is more than that poor soul can
Good grief if that is what folks get to "the end of their tether" with then they should get out more and see the real problems of the world
PM

[olivia]

[quote=peter macdonald;227129
After all these protesters could always move on somewhere else which is more than that poor soul can
Good grief if that is what folks get to "the end of their tether" with then they should get out more and see the real problems of the world
PM[/quote]
What do you mean by 'these protesters could alway move on somewhere else'? Why should they have to leave their area, that maybe their families have lived in for generations, to accomodate another persons wish to make lots of money? Residents who have the prospect of large windfarms being built very close to their homes have genuine fears and worries, such as immense visual impact, noise, strobe effects, shadow flicker etc. etc. Your flippant comments obviously come from someone who just doesnt understand the real issues involved.

[NickInTheNorth]

<content snipped>

However, I am having great trouble getting some answers over this last one.... such as the life span of home turbines, what the carbon debt is by manufacturing one (will it actually be balanced by its use during its lifetime), etc. It would be nice to get some answers on voltaic cell electric generation as well - are these long term effective? How much do they cost? etc.

Often get decent answers on this site to such questions.

[peter macdonald]

"Your flippant comments obviously come from someone who just doesnt understand the real issues involved."
Flippant ---- a man died because of this-- please read that again
Im not being flippant Please compare "have genuine fears and worries, such as immense visual impact, noise, strobe effects, shadow flicker etc. etc." and -----death----
Im sorry but you want to get a grip

Last post on this

In fact Im so sickened Im out of here period
PM

[rupert]

Fully with you on that one, Olivia. Considering the large-scale input some countries put into their renewable energy programmes, our Gov't is stingey to the extreme. Personally, I have insulated my loft (but have additional ideas afoot), am getting a Class A boiler system installed, have had cavity wall insulation put in, have plans to insulate those areas where it was impossible to do cavity wall - such as the integral garage, and wish to install a domestic wind turbine. However, I am having great trouble getting some answers over this last one.... such as the life span of home turbines, what the carbon debt is by manufacturing one (will it actually be balanced by its use during its lifetime), etc. It would be nice to get some answers on voltaic cell electric generation as well - are these long term effective? How much do they cost? etc.

I have never understood why solar panels in peoples roofs have never really taken off. Many years ago, like back in the 80's, my forward thinking neighbours installed solar panels in their roof. I think they cost quite a bit but they swore it made all the difference to the bills. Why doesn't the government subsidise this form of renewable energy (or do they already)? Surely, if we all went for solar panels, the price would come down and the manufacturers would have loads of business.

[Tilter]

Personally, I have insulated my loft (but have additional ideas afoot), am getting a Class A boiler system installed, have had cavity wall insulation put in, have plans to insulate those areas where it was impossible to do cavity wall - such as the integral garage, and wish to install a domestic wind turbine, though we should. However, I am having great trouble getting some answers over this last one.... such as the life span of home turbines, what the carbon debt is by manufacturing one (will it actually be balanced by its use during its lifetime), etc. It would be nice to get some answers on voltaic cell electric generation as well - are these long term effective? How much do they cost? etc.

Ricco,
Your energy conservation tactics are laudable. We have pretty much the same thing, except we've not looked into a wind turbine. I think the problem is that a lot of people can't afford to do all that, and the government isn't stepping in adequately where it should be - at the bottom, with the simple things.

Please come back to me with what you've found out about domestic turbines. From what I've read they don't seem to be all they're cracked up to be, e.g., hardly able to boil a kettle and even causing cracks or stress in house walls. And it always seems impossible to find out how much energy is expended in the process of manufacturing anything.

We had solar roof panels on a house we owned in the 1980's. It worked well but it only produced hot water, and we had an immersion heater backing it up when the sun didn't shine enough. I would imagine they're a lot better these days, but it did save money.

[Tilter]

it's a windy hill for goodness' sake.

Most of Scotland's a windy hill. Do we have to have them mucking up a place where quite a lot of people live?

Anyway, Crayola, we have no argument. Hey, thanks for the link:

we are golden.

I never knew the words to that - just the chorus. It's a great song/poem.

[Ricco]

Ricco,
Your energy conservation tactics are laudable. We have pretty much the same thing, except we've not looked into a wind turbine. I think the problem is that a lot of people can't afford to do all that, and the government isn't stepping in adequately where it should be - at the bottom, with the simple things.

You can get a grant for around £400 from the DTi.

Please come back to me with what you've found out about domestic turbines. From what I've read they don't seem to be all they're cracked up to be, e.g., hardly able to boil a kettle and even causing cracks or stress in house walls. And it always seems impossible to find out how much energy is expended in the process of manufacturing anything.

I must confess that stressing the walls had not occurred to me - must look into that one

We had solar roof panels on a house we owned in the 1980's. It worked well but it only produced hot water, and we had an immersion heater backing it up when the sun didn't shine enough. I would imagine they're a lot better these days, but it did save money.

I hope to get more up-to-date info soon.

[MadPict]

Fenland Landscape Against Turbines

With regards to the "rural terrorism" which was supposed to be responsible for the death of this fenland farmer the commitee involved in the campaign against the development have issued a press release in light of the allegations by the developers about hostility towards consortium speakers at recent meetings and the 'felling' of the anemometer mast.


http://www.flat-group.co.uk/press-re...007-05-26.html

[Tilter]

Fenland Landscape Against Turbines

With regards to the "rural terrorism" which was supposed to be responsible for the death of this fenland farmer the commitee involved in the campaign against the development have issued a press release in light of the allegations by the developers about hostility towards consortium speakers at recent meetings and the 'felling' of the anemometer mast. http://www.flat-group.co.uk/press-re...007-05-26.html

Well - there goes another community. The things should be banned if only for the bad feelings they arouse neighbour to neighbour. My own experience of dealing with developers and consultants, and the sheer quantity of spin they arrogantly produce - spin often crossing the line into misinformation - makes me lean towards FLAT's version of event. But calling them rural terrorists would be a bit steep by anyone's standards.

[MadPict]

It is interesting to note that the meeting only became “rather heated” after the consultants had introduced themselves as “the enemy” and told the audience that “they had never lost the fight with any wind farm that they had been involved with and did not intent to break their record with this one”! From then onwards they continued to both antagonise and alienate the audience and at one point even told one questioner to “shut up”.

Way to go to win the battle for hearts and minds....

[ywindythesecond]

Fenland Landscape Against Turbines




http://www.flat-group.co.uk/press-re...007-05-26.html

What ever made us think that only Caithness was targetted?
I haven't read it but I understand the recent Energy White Paper proposes double ROCs for offshore wind to promote offshore development, not half ROCs to reduce onshore wind development. ( Got a link please MadPict?)
ywindythesecond

[Tilter]

In case you missed this morning's Courier: http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/...off_talks.html . Watten COmmunity Council's chairman has done nothing but promote this scheme regardless of what anyone else, including his fellow councillors, think, and has never taken any active steps to seek out community views, i.e., has refused to hold a ballot, refused to hold a public meeting, refused to disseminate any information on the scheme, etc.

He says he's talked to a lot of people. According to the Association of Scottish Community Councils Best Practice guidelines, that's not good enough. They specifically state at http://www.ascc.org.uk/page.aspx?pg=...dIsYourCC.aspx that "word of mouth and informal personal contact is a common practice, and has its place. It is the least objective method of discovering the community's views and should not be relied upon in making important decisions."

And one of the COuncillors has close family with a financial interest in the scheme apparently.

I don't understand what's going on here.

[sweep]

just got back from hols and saw the latest on proposed plans at spittal. it's a real shocker that watten cc chair has a vested financial interest in this and has been trying to push it through .surely he cannot continue in this com council any longer. how very embarrassing!!!!

[Green_not_greed]

If as Sweep says and is reported in the local media that some of Watten CC are representing themselves (or their family) and not the views of the community then I suggest that the community hold their own meeting and hold a vote of no confidence in the existing community council. I'm unsure of the rules but with the media involved and a clear majority against the current CC surely they can be forced to restand - possibly against truly independent representative candidates?

[Tilter]

I haven't read it but I understand the recent Energy White Paper proposes double ROCs for offshore wind to promote offshore development, not half ROCs to reduce onshore wind development. ( Got a link please MadPict?)
ywindythesecond

Paper is at www.dtistats.net/ewp/ . I've not had a look through it yet either. Saving it for a bout of insomnia.

Oh, and here's what we think about it: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Rele...07/05/31171000

[hilary]

yes seen the paper seems the chairman approves blackmail as well.thats w.cc.I am discussing .I believe there was no decision taken at that last meeting to approve the wind farm,as they are open meetings .Cant wait to see the minutes of that meeting.Feel sorry for the Watten community being denied their right to have a say in what goes on.

[rupert]

yes seen the paper seems the chairman approves blackmail as well.thats w.cc.I am discussing .I believe there was no decision taken at that last meeting to approve the wind farm,as they are open meetings .Cant wait to see the minutes of that meeting.Feel sorry for the Watten community being denied their right to have a say in what goes on.

What's going on at Watten Community Council is totally wrong. How dare that Chairman state in the paper (Courier 30 May) 'We have made our position clear that we will not be objecting to the windfarm and that we're keen to look into the possibility of community involvement'! Has he asked his community if they want to be involved, has he heck. He has gone behind peoples backs, including fellow councillors, negotiating with the developer without even trying to find our what his community thinks to the whole business. Community councillors are supposed to represent their community and do the best for their community provided the minority do not suffer subsequently. He has made no attempt whatsoever to consult his community whether it be a public meeting or postal ballot. The excuses he makes about it costing to much are rubbish. He could easily call a public meeting, how much would that cost? Just lies, damn lies. Me thinks he doth protest too much. Or is he just corrupt?

[crayola]

Most of Scotland's a windy hill. Do we have to have them mucking up a place where quite a lot of people live?

How many people live there? It's been some time.

Anyway, Crayola, we have no argument. Hey, thanks for the link: (to Joni Mitchell's Woodstock lyrics)

I never knew the words to that - just the chorus. It's a great song/poem.

I enjoyed it again too.

We are stardust, we are golden,
We are billion year old carbon.

That chorus is as poignant today as it was back then. Perhaps more so. Not that I was old enough to understand back then. We won't have made real progress until we can tame the light of the stars.

I don't believe we've learned a lot in the intervening years or we wouldn't allow evil doers to desecrate our landscape with profitable but pointless windmills.

[hilary]

cant say rightly how much ,but there are lots not as much as thurso ,but there is village called spittal +lots smallholdings and houses. Its like the highland clearances folk had no say replaced gy sheep now the same thing is happening again only turbines are being put there instead.
Tom pottinger could be remembered in history as being one of the many responsible for destroying scotland.and the chairman of watten C.C and his relations that are on the council