How about a poll (!) on In or OUT of the EU?

[bekisman]

Maybe this is not for the 'General' Section? But there is obviously going to be a lot of interest generated on whether the UK leaves the EU or if we stay in - especially with regard to Scotland and a possible 'trigger point' IF the UK decides to leave. No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion.
Personally I would vote to leave, I am often away, off to Italy in a week or two and thus hopefully someone on here who can set up a poll to get the ball rolling???

[Rheghead]

A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change?

[wavy davy]

A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change?

Words fail me.

[bekisman]

A poll would be interesting. But I'm flabbergasted by the hypocrisy of a large proportion of those who were saying unity is better during the indyref campaign are now actually say that independence is better. Surely the principle that unity and 'better together' with something bigger and more resilient shouldn't change?

What! So you are saying no matter what one is 'in' then it's better to stay together, no matter what the details are, just as long as the 'principle' is the same! good God man, I pity your reasoning - I quite agree with wavy davy, words fail me..
But no need to worry, if we all follow your diktat, i.e. still vote the same as in indy, then we're obviously out?

[Westward]

Out...we are better off out of the EU

[Rheghead]

What! So you are saying no matter what one is 'in' then it's better to stay together, no matter what the details are, just as long as the 'principle' is the same! good God man, I pity your reasoning - I quite agree with wavy davy, words fail me..
But no need to worry, if we all follow your diktat, i.e. still vote the same as in indy, then we're obviously out?

Well being part of something bigger is better. So the UK is better being a part of the EU. That should be the reasoning for the No camp of the indy referendum, or was it just a load of flannel?

[Scout]

I'm not sure why you say it is the same. With UK we was asked do we want Scotland to be split from the rest of the United Kingdom, we voted no get over it, EU really do we want to have rules made up from another country imposed on our fisherman or farmers etc. What I think is amazing the SNP and yes voters do not want Westminster to regulate Scotland but they happy for EU to be able to regulate fishing etc. ????

[theone]

Well being part of something bigger is better. So the UK is better being a part of the EU. That should be the reasoning for the No camp of the indy referendum, or was it just a load of flannel?

With that logic the SNP and indy brigade should be campaigning to get out the EU.

[Shaggy]

What I think is amazing the SNP and yes voters do not want Westminster to regulate Scotland but they happy for EU to be able to regulate fishing etc. ????

Sorry but what fishing are you talking about? It's an all but dead industry here in Scotland.
Also, as per usual, the thread apparently IS turning into an anti-SNP/YES voter bash and i fail to see how you came up with the statement that yes voters are happy for the EU to regulate anything? have you actually gone round all of Scotland and personally asked them all?........next thread please.

[Sgitheanach]

I voted yes but will still be voting out.

[Scout]

Sorry but what fishing are you talking about? It's an all but dead industry here in Scotland.
Also, as per usual, the thread apparently IS turning into an anti-SNP/YES voter bash and i fail to see how you came up with the statement that yes voters are happy for the EU to regulate anything? have you actually gone round all of Scotland and personally asked them all?........next thread please.

Yes you are right that is because of the EU regulations mucked that one up. As for bashing towards SNP yes voters I was refering to Rheghead bashing the no Voters. If you hear what the SNP say they would like to stay in EU so my point why when they do not want to stay in UK?

[Sgitheanach]

I would rather live in a united UK(first time I have ever said that) free from europe than in a independent Scotland governed by Europe .

[bekisman]

"No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion." (see #1 above).. Thank you andyw for setting up the poll

[Kenn]

I voted to join The EEC, NOT a federal Europe, over the years I have been close to despair, joyed at the results of certain matters but at the end of the day I am unsure if the economic benefits outweigh the interference in the sovereignity of these islands is justified.






I voted to join The EEC, not a Federal Europe, I find it some what galling that Bruxelles can over rule the laws and acts of our Parliament. Head says for economic reasons stay in , heart says run .

[Scout]

"No this should NOT be about the SNP or any political party, but the Org membership's opinion." (see #1 above).. Thank you andyw for setting up the poll

I agree however It is important to note that parts of the country Scotland compare to rest of the country with the out come of the votes SNP will use this if we decide we leave EU then this could trigger another referendum. My own thoughts are we should leave with out all the red tape in place that brings the country down.

[SkozkrHorgr]

I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.

One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.

Does anyone have any other views (either way) that could sway my opinion?

[bekisman]

[QUOTE=SkozkrHorgr;1141360]I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.

One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.

Yes SkozkrHorgr interesting statements from them; "Barclays said the worst effect of Brexit would be felt by Europe, rather than the UK which could benefit".. still, 4 months to go.. bit of a non-starter this Cameron saying the French will kick the British border control out of Calais? OK let's say they do, that will be an open invitation to countless thousands upon thousands of migrants to immediately head for Calais in the expectation of getting onto ships for England? Nope, the ships won't move - not with the obvious £2,000 per clandestine for the lorry owner and £2,000 for the driver. Those companies would go bust - let alone the shipping company.
Instead there would not be a 'Jungle' in Calais, there would be a bloody great rain forest - in the meantime redirected lorries to the Hook, Rotterdam, Zeebrugge, Dunkerque, Boulogne, Dieppe, Le Harve, Caen, Cherbourg, St Malo, Roscoff... anyway that's my opinion

Just seen this on BBC News: "Jose Manuel Barroso ...He said the EU would be "weaker" if the UK voted to leave in a referendum.... He spoke out as the six founding members of the EU recommitted to building an "ever closer union". Nope, not for me!

[Rheghead]

I've only just started reading material on the subject and so far can't decide which way I'm heading. Lots of opinions (and in the end they are all guesses, like the indyref) both ways.

One of the most interesting ones I've seen is from Barclays Bank of all places, they think Britain leaving the EU could be the start of the collapse of the Union, and being the first one out we could be seen by banks and businesses as a stable choice to be based as the rest of Europe falls into financial chaos. Interesting view for a large corporation to publicly express.

Does anyone have any other views (either way) that could sway my opinion?

It is strange to me why someone who is absolutely pro-UK would want to put the Union in further crisis by wanting out of the UK. It seems they want it all their own way and they are reckless of the consequences. Well at least they can blame everyone else other than themselves I suppose...

[Rheghead]

There is also the point that the SNP cannot publically state they wish to leave the EU as they see Scotland as a full EU member after independence, but if Brexit takes place then they will have political leverage for the cause for independence if and only if they can demonstrate that Scotland wished to stay in the EU.

So if you want a chance of another independence referendum after Brexit then you have to demonstrate to stay in the EU otherwise the SNP cannot prove that Scotland is pro-EU, and that means voting to stay in the EU. However, if the result is to stay in EU then the SNP has to honour the previous referendum result and the UK goes on.

[Alrock]

In a nutshell, the problem I see with "Even Closer Union" (good in theory) is that before you can do that you have to tackle the huge wealth gaps between member states. Once you get every member state up to a reasonably equal standard of living then you can tear the borders down without the fear of a flood of economic migrants. In fact if the standard of living was similar accross the whole of the EU then for every economic migrant coming here from, say, Poland, there will be one from here going to Poland.

On a side note.. Considering the state of the Greek economy why isn't there a flood of Greek imigrants?
Is it down to a different mindset between Mediterranean & Eastern European countries?

On another contentious issue, that of benefits for migrants this is my take on it...
In order to recieve social security payments you should need to have citizenship of the country you wish to claim benefits in. If, for example you are a Polish (not picking on the Polish, honestly, just using them for illustrative purposes) citizen living in the UK & you need to claim benefits then you should be claiming those benefits from the Polish government, likewise, a UK citizen could go & live in Poland & claim benefits from the UK government there.