Forth road bridge

[rob murray]

WHose responsible for the Forth road bridge debacle ..is it another westminster disaster ?

[golach]

WHose responsible for the Forth road bridge debacle ..is it another westminster disaster ?

Ehmm now let me think......naw it's Holyrood that's responsible, they knew there was a problem years ago, and what did they spend the money on, Gaelic Road signs!! I wonder what "Bridge Closed" in Gaelic is? Have not seen any warning signs in Gaelic so far.

[rob murray]

Ehmm now let me think......naw it's Holyrood that's responsible, they knew there was a problem years ago, and what did they spend the money on, Gaelic Road signs!! I wonder what "Bridge Closed" in Gaelic is? Have not seen any warning signs in Gaelic so far.

I was genuinely posing a serious question as I didnt know who carried the can, all predictions on closure of bridge are dire, re economic effects on Lothians, higher haulage charges passed onto consumers, higher carbon discharges etc. Holyrood surely didnt spend the all monies on daft road signs suely ?

[rob murray]

Seemingly according to some sources, the bridge may never re open for HGV's, if true than we can expect higher prices across a range of consumables as higher transport costs have to be passed on hauliers cannot be expected to absorb extra fuel

[cptdodger]

Seemingly according to some sources, the bridge may never re open for HGV's, if true than we can expect higher prices across a range of consumables as higher transport costs have to be passed on hauliers cannot be expected to absorb extra fuel

This appeared on my Facebook page - http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-m...-snp-1-3968160

[tonkatojo]

This appeared on my Facebook page - http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-m...-snp-1-3968160

Well well well, it will be interesting the comments from mighty mouth Nicola on this one.

[bekisman]

"The Scottish Government’s prestigious new Forth Bridges Unit took over responsibility for the operation, management and maintenance of the Forth Road Bridge (FRB) on June 1, 2015"
Oh Damn

[Mr Z]

Amey on behalf of Transport Scotland undertakes services associated with the operation, management and maintenance of the Forth Road Bridge and its approach roads ("The Forth Bridges Unit").

Amey delivers a comprehensive service in the design and delivery of bridge maintenance work, as well as inspections to ensure the bridge and its approach roads remain safe and well maintained.


Just as BEAR looks after the A9. The Govt is responsible for all trunk roads but it's contracted out to companies to look after maintenance. Amey who took on the role in July have obviously done a good job in finding a fault and with govt approval have closed the bridge until repaired. Putting safety first.
Now can you imagine whose fault it would be if it turned into a more major failure if left unattended or if traffic continued to use it.

But hey why let the facts get in the way of the blame game

[bekisman]

There you are, page 6 says it all! http://www.bath.ac.uk/ace/uploads/St.../PENISTONE.pdf

[cptdodger]

What I couldn't understand was, before they closed the bridge fully, they had only closed one lane, or one side. I would have thought if something was to fail on the bridge the whole lot would have come down, not just one side of it.

[theone]

What I couldn't understand was, before they closed the bridge fully, they had only closed one lane, or one side. I would have thought if something was to fail on the bridge the whole lot would have come down, not just one side of it.

My understanding is that another problem was found first, and the single carriageway was closed to allow inspection.

It is only after this inspection that the major crack was found and the decision made to close the bridge.

Although I've not heard it announced, it looks as if the damage has got worse since first discovered.

The first image released showed a crack through the steel:

http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming...s615/crack.jpg

A more recent image seems to show that same crack, but with the lower section having moved left, as if it has sheared.

http://www.sundaypost.com/polopoly_f..._490/image.png

[rob murray]

The guy who used to be head strructral engineer was in the paper yesterday, apparently 5 years ago a report was produce re bridge essential maintenance and it was "parked" he says he can see the bridge being closed for a long time certainly wont be open in January so he says, but time will out as they say.

[rob murray]

Amey on behalf of Transport Scotland undertakes services associated with the operation, management and maintenance of the Forth Road Bridge and its approach roads ("The Forth Bridges Unit").

Amey delivers a comprehensive service in the design and delivery of bridge maintenance work, as well as inspections to ensure the bridge and its approach roads remain safe and well maintained.


Just as BEAR looks after the A9. The Govt is responsible for all trunk roads but it's contracted out to companies to look after maintenance. Amey who took on the role in July have obviously done a good job in finding a fault and with govt approval have closed the bridge until repaired. Putting safety first.
Now can you imagine whose fault it would be if it turned into a more major failure if left unattended or if traffic continued to use it.

But hey why let the facts get in the way of the blame game

Theres no blame game, but something has happened, the fault/s didnt occurr over night, the bridge like any steel structure is inspected and maintenance reports produced and actioned, there is an implication that this didnt happen, the fault was found, good, the bridge had to be closed the govt couldnt sanction its use with the faults found as you say they had no alternative bit close it. But if the fault lies with AMey then something has to be done about it.

[rob murray]

AGain I have to ask...why was this problem not picked up during inspections or was it and it was "defered"? The part that has failed is apperently called a "truss end link" There are 8 of them on the bridge, two at each end of each main carriageway deck where they join the main tower - they don't hold the deck up but they locate the decks against the towers to make sure they are straight and level. In February 2009, a report was presented to the Forth Bridge Board saying that the truss end links were showing signs of being "over-stressed". At that time, it was decided to defer the works until after they had carried out the repairs and dehumidification of the main cables . It was expected to start the work on the truss end links in 2010/11, a notice inviting tenders for the work was advertised in 2010. The tender process was then cancelled by the SNP. Then in 2013, the Board were told that the truss end links were one of three projects to be tendered in 2013/14. That was again deferred in early 2014 because of funding cuts. At that time, the Board were told that deferral of these projects would increase the risk to the bridge and when the works are eventually carried out, the cost would be greater than if they were done in time. The Board also estimated that apart from the works themselves the closure is estimated to cost the Scottish economy some £50 million. But what do they do now, after it has all gone wrong? PLanners will need to come up with a transport plan, to arrange alternative routes and to look at alternative transport modes. But there's a big problem..... In intensive destination surveys at the bridge it was found that half of the people travelling to Edinburgh city centre, already travelled by train. It was also found that only a third of the traffic on the bridge was going into central Edinburgh - a huge proportion was going to West Lothian, Glasgow, Lanarkshire etc, or around Edinburgh to Midlothian, East Lothian and the Borders. So more trains will help, but they do not get more than about a third of the traffic to their destinations. So no matter how many more trains, ferries etc, are provided between Fife and Edinburgh, most of the traffic will still be crossing at Kincardine. And freight - how do you get those goods across ( and the answer isn't "trains" because again, they are going all over the place, not just to central Edinburgh )

[Green_not_greed]

I certainly don't believe that the SNP administration are blameless in this - here is the link to the cancelled 2010 proposed works on the truss rod links problem

http://www.publiccontractsscotland.g...x?ID=MAY077389

This was indeed known about and correctly identified, then cancelled by the SNP administration. They gambled on the new bridge being ready before repairs had to be carried out on the older bridge.

[rob murray]

Abstract:

Publication Date: 25/05/2010 The Forth Road Bridge was opened in 1964 and now carries over 24 million vehicles per annum. Assessments of the suspended structure and the truss end connections have identified that several of the key elements forming these connections are overstressed. A feasibility study has been undertaken and a preferred option identified to strengthen the existing truss end link connection. The Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA) wishes to appoint a suitably experienced consulting engineer to undertake the detailed design of the new truss end connections. The successful candidate will also be responsbile for the preparation of tender documentation and the supervision of the works on site. CPV: 71312000. Well there it is in black and white, tender abstract 25 /5 2010 : so who cancelled it.... FETA ? or the government, if government then why is Sturgeon so adamant that it wasnt the government...ie all over todays news it wisnae us... or is FETA operating at arms lenght from the government so technically they, the government, can say it was a FETA decision, this is a major issue and the public should get straight answers.

[rob murray]

Amey on behalf of Transport Scotland undertakes services associated with the operation, management and maintenance of the Forth Road Bridge and its approach roads ("The Forth Bridges Unit").

Amey delivers a comprehensive service in the design and delivery of bridge maintenance work, as well as inspections to ensure the bridge and its approach roads remain safe and well maintained.


Just as BEAR looks after the A9. The Govt is responsible for all trunk roads but it's contracted out to companies to look after maintenance. Amey who took on the role in July have obviously done a good job in finding a fault and with govt approval have closed the bridge until repaired. Putting safety first.
Now can you imagine whose fault it would be if it turned into a more major failure if left unattended or if traffic continued to use it.

But hey why let the facts get in the way of the blame game

FETA is the successor Authority to the Forth Road Bridge Joint Board (FRBJB) and is the Authority responsible for the maintenance and operation of the Forth Road Bridge (FRB). http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4...ittee/FETA.pdf
Also see FETA tender abstract 2010 below, ie the one cancelled
http://www.publiccontractsscotland.g...x?ID=MAY077389

[cptdodger]

My understanding is that another problem was found first, and the single carriageway was closed to allow inspection.

It is only after this inspection that the major crack was found and the decision made to close the bridge.

Although I've not heard it announced, it looks as if the damage has got worse since first discovered.

The first image released showed a crack through the steel:

http://i3.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming...s615/crack.jpg

A more recent image seems to show that same crack, but with the lower section having moved left, as if it has sheared.

http://www.sundaypost.com/polopoly_f..._490/image.png

Thanks for that, I did wonder. Having grown up just outside Dundee, I'm not good with bridges at the best of times, personally if I thought there was any problem at all, I would avoid that bridge at all costs !

[rob murray]

There has to a parliamentary enquiry into this situation, that way truth will out once and for all

[Oddquine]

Abstract:

Publication Date: 25/05/2010 The Forth Road Bridge was opened in 1964 and now carries over 24 million vehicles per annum. Assessments of the suspended structure and the truss end connections have identified that several of the key elements forming these connections are overstressed. A feasibility study has been undertaken and a preferred option identified to strengthen the existing truss end link connection. The Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA) wishes to appoint a suitably experienced consulting engineer to undertake the detailed design of the new truss end connections. The successful candidate will also be responsbile for the preparation of tender documentation and the supervision of the works on site. CPV: 71312000. Well there it is in black and white, tender abstract 25 /5 2010 : so who cancelled it.... FETA ? or the government, if government then why is Sturgeon so adamant that it wasnt the government...ie all over todays news it wisnae us... or is FETA operating at arms lenght from the government so technically they, the government, can say it was a FETA decision, this is a major issue and the public should get straight answers.

Some information from http://wingsoverscotland.com/water-under-the-bridge/ all with references as to fact.

The decision not to replace the entire section of bridge containing the part which is now defective was made in 2010 by the now-defunct Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA), a non-government organisation dominated by Labour and Lib Dem board members. (The SNP had just three out of 10.)


They elected to defer replacement after the Scottish Government reduced FETA’s capital funding in 2011. However, an Audit Scotland report in October 2012 noted that “FETA’s reserves will be utilised to meet planned capital funding shortfalls over the next three years”.

The decision not to use the reserves to replace the section was FETA’s, which didn’t consider the work a priority in the light of other concerns.

There is more detail given in the post....but the conclusion states (though i don't know enough to agree or disagree with it)

Sometimes things break and it’s inconvenient. But the fact is that all the money in the world wouldn’t have stopped the Forth Road Bridge from having to be closed at some point. As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the only thing which offered any possibility of minimising disruption was NOT to do the work in 2010. FETA made the right choice, but sadly weren’t vindicated by fortune.