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Thread: Named person scheme falls apart under BBC interrogation

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    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    Default Named person scheme falls apart under BBC interrogation

    If you're interested in what the Named person Scheme will mean to you, your family and children this is worth a listen.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clsaHHT_Vxk

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    If you're interested in what the Named person Scheme will mean to you, your family and children this is worth a listen.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clsaHHT_Vxk
    Is this for every child or just the ones already under social services ?

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    The named person is for every child in Scotland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    The named person is for every child in Scotland.
    How on earth are they going to even contemplate carrying that out? Fair play if the child/children are already on the at risk register, but in this day and age you are not going to let some random person tell you what you can or cannot do with your children. And where are all these upstanding citizens going to come from, Teachers, Police, Doctors? I can give you an example of people in every one of these professions being in court on child abuse charges. Clearly I am not tarring everybody in those professions with the same brush, but you can never be too careful.

    Talk about a nanny state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    If you're interested in what the Named person Scheme will mean to you, your family and children this is worth a listen.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clsaHHT_Vxk
    I think this is just a Charter for paedophiles , who are the chosen ones going to be, and who will monitor them?
    Once the original Grumpy Owld Man but alas no more

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    Quote Originally Posted by golach View Post
    I think this is just a Charter for paedophiles , who are the chosen ones going to be, and who will monitor them?
    Well I gather it's all a bit wishy washy and not particularly well thought at at the moment. The organisations which are to be tasked with implementing the provisions don't seem overly happy about it either. But I'm sure Squidge is probably totally up to speed on it all and will give you valid reasons why every child in Scotland up to the age of 18 will need a state sponsored guardian who will tell them it's ok to keep secrets from parents and guide them along life's route despite whatever the parents may agree or disagree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    If you're interested in what the Named person Scheme will mean to you, your family and children this is worth a listen.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=clsaHHT_Vxk
    The Named Person concept has been ongoing in Highland Region for a few years now as Highland was chosen as one of the areas to pilot it. All children have a Named Person. The Named person for children from birth to 10 days of age is the Midwife, for children aged from 11 days up until school entry it's the Health Visitor, and for school aged children it's the Head Teacher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gingernut View Post
    The Named Person concept has been ongoing in Highland Region for a few years now as Highland was chosen as one of the areas to pilot it. All children have a Named Person. The Named person for children from birth to 10 days of age is the Midwife, for children aged from 11 days up until school entry it's the Health Visitor, and for school aged children it's the Head Teacher.
    And you're perfectly ok with it ?

    Not concerned that someone outwith your family unit tells your child it's ok to keep secrets from them?

    Or doesn't the concept of a private life without state intrusion bother you in the slightest ?

    I seem to recall that being part of the human rights thing

    Right to a private life without unnecessary state intrusion.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 28-Sep-15 at 22:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    And you're perfectly ok with it ?

    Not concerned that someone outwith your family unit tells your child it's ok to keep secrets from them?

    Or doesn't the concept of a private life without state intrusion bother you in the slightest ?

    I seem to recall that being part of the human rights thing

    Right to a private life without unnecessary state intrusion.
    I'm perfectly OK with it.
    In my experience there's no "unnecessary state intrusion" involved.
    The Named People are people who have always, in the past been involved with children and families, and their roles are no different from how they ever were....just a different name i.e Named Person.
    Their main role is to support children and families when support is required, and have minimal involvement when not required.

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    The named person has been in place since my son was born 26 years ago! It just wasnt called the named person but let's have a look... CPT you must have experienced the same service.

    1989 - all pregnant women are allocated a midwife prior to birth and up to 10 days after birth when they hand over to health visitor, the HV looks after child until age 5 when the headteacher or guidance teacher takes over until child leaves school.

    2015 - all pregnant women allocated a named person - a midwife from before birth until 10 days after birth when they hand over to health visitor, the HV looks after the child until they are five when the head teacher or guidance teacher takes over as named person until the child leaves school or is 18.

    In fact 26 years ago the role of the HV was much more intrusive - weekly visits to your home until child was 12 weeks and woe betide you if you didn't turn up to baby clinic to get baby weighed!

    The main difference with this new legislation is that the named person is the contact for any agency or intervention which takes place for that child. So police, social work, any concerns a neighbour or other professional or indeed a parent has can be passed to the named person and this will help to ensure that nothing is missed and to establish any pattern or other concern.

    There is no requirement on the named person to be doing assessments on every child. It is only if there is a concern about a child's behaviour that the named person would do any more than their normal role as a teacher or health visitor. Many parents of children with additional support needs have reported that having a NP makes things a lot easier as the NP co ordinates everything for that child and acts as a single point of contact.

    In addition, the named person has the new role of linking with a child's new school if the child moves to ensure that they are indeed at that school and that any concerns are passed on.

    As for a paedophiles charter that's nonsense. The named person is the professionals as shown, where the headteacher delegates the role - in a big school for example - it must be to a teacher holding an enhanced post - like guidance or year head for example. You might as well say that putting a child to school is a paedophiles charter.

    Gingernut is absolutely right to say that it has been operated in Highland for several years. In the normal run of things there will be no specific action for a named person to take other than their normal duties. Only if something causes a concern would any further assessment or action be necessary.

    I do have some concerns around how this operates if the relationship between parent and NP has broken down, or if a child is home educated and its not clear how the role of NP works once a child has left school but before they are 18. But the level of hysteria about this role is nonsense.

    If you are worried here is the legislation. It looks a bit daunting perhaps but it is just section 4. You can read it yourself. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/20...ntents/enacted

    I do have to admit to stifling a wry smile at BT promoting No2Np which is led by a Christian organisation!
    Last edited by squidge; 28-Sep-15 at 23:50.

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    Okay, but a Named Person suggests to me just that, one named person not a multitude as in my case. I can't tell you how many midwifes I had, I certainly didn't have a named one, and I had four children, two born in Scotland, with the second child, most of the care was in England, then I had him in Scotland because of an incident at Whipps Cross Hospital in East London, then the younger two were born in England, one at home, one in hospital. I was lucky if I saw the same midwife twice. As for Health Visitors, I saw them when I took the children to be weighed, again not just one person, I never saw a Health Visitor outwith that.

    Schools, in my Grandsons case, who is not out of Primary school yet (England) he has had umpteen teachers (they keep leaving) and at the last count four different Head teachers. It may very well be different in the Highland Region, because of the sparse population compared to where I lived in Scotland and England (London), but to me, there will be no continuity, no matter which way you look at it.

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    The named person is the role. And for me, - my three oldest children were born in Manchester - I saw lots of midwives before the birth but a single one after and a single health visitor. The NP role is allocated to the role so a head teacher or a guidance teacher - a promoted post - to assist with continuity. It should remain with that role throughout the child's schooling as teachers can change every year but head teachers tend to remain the same.

    There is a No2np roadshow in Inverness. They don't look to be going up to Caithness but people might want to pop down and attend or get in touch and ask them to take a trip up the road. I went to one in Dingwall last December I think. it was an interesting evening.

    As I said, I do have some concerns about how it will work in particular situations but I have two kids in school just now and this doesn't worry me nor the majority of parents at the school either
    Last edited by squidge; 29-Sep-15 at 07:57.

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    Surprising how Squidge is such an authority on the issue but the people who will be charged with actually undertaking the roles aren't so sure, why is she being at best light with the honesty.

    The named person has much farther reaching powers than your midwife as,per usual she is truth lite when it comes to SNP policy but we are all now fully aware she is hoping to hop on the political gravy train so will tow the unswerving party line and blur the truth with political ambition.

    Let alone the court case currently rolling through the system to try stop it being introduced. The wording of the named person scheme is very loose and open to interpretation.

    Why would a member of the state tell your child it's ok to keep secrets from its parents but tell them. That is one of the more ominous parts of the proposed legislation.
    It's all very well and good telling us one thing but as we are all aware government legislation is rarely the benign instrument it's made out to be when used incorrectly or by a self serving state it can be wielded like a very heavy club.

    The Named person scheme has no safeguards for parents and the appeals process as currently set out it torturous at best.
    This is just another piece of unwanted unnecessary oppressive intrusive state legislation.

    Why do people feel that Scotland is the only fully westernised country where our children need another level of state guardianship outwith the parental unit.

    I hear many pro independence people say they feel oppressed but in my view this has to be oppressive legislation in its purest form. Introducing wide ranging clumsy legislation that has no tight legal parameters and is open to the vague interpretation is no more than a recipe for disaster.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 29-Sep-15 at 08:02.

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    If as is said nothing is changing and it is midwifes, health visitors, teachers and head teachers that are doing whatever this named person is supposed to do already, then what is the point of this? Something else must be happening, or what is the point of this bill.

    It may sound like a great idea to some, but I doubt people in Orkney would agree, this is what happens when authorities get it terribly wrong - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney..._abuse_scandal.

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    There are changes CPT as I mentioned already. There is a duty to act when a child changes school, there is to be a central point to collect together all concerns and oversee the process, there is a duty to assess a child when a wellbeing concern is raised and there is a duty to put the needs of the child first. And whilst Orkney - and Rochdale - were terrible situations there are so many situations where had the people involved in the cafe of a child spoken to each other, shared information through a central point then patterns would have been seen and the child could potentially have been saved. Baby Peter, Victoria climbie and too many others. Without a doubt there are issues with this legislation but the argument that I heard from the No2np meeting was mainly " my family don't need this so we shouldn't have it". If your family doesn't need support from or help from or indeed intervention from a NAmed Person then they won't get it. But if they do then it's right that it is there and not lacking surely.

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    Here you go cpt instead of listening to flim flam from the org activist why not read for yourself. No better source than the Scot gov website which just happens to note all the problems.



    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/06/9933/7


    Once again a gross understatement by our defacto SNP spokesperson the issue is more than just if you've done nothing you've got nothing to worry about. It's about a heavy handed badly thought out poorly drafted piece of legislations the potential of misuse cannot be understated. Also lets be honest hear the appeals process is tortuous at best so it's a system already mired in controversy before it's even launche. Let alone the court case that seems to be destined to hit the European courts.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 29-Sep-15 at 09:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidge View Post
    There are changes CPT as I mentioned already. There is a duty to act when a child changes school, there is to be a central point to collect together all concerns and oversee the process, there is a duty to assess a child when a wellbeing concern is raised and there is a duty to put the needs of the child first. And whilst Orkney - and Rochdale - were terrible situations there are so many situations where had the people involved in the cafe of a child spoken to each other, shared information through a central point then patterns would have been seen and the child could potentially have been saved. Baby Peter, Victoria climbie and too many others. Without a doubt there are issues with this legislation but the argument that I heard from the No2np meeting was mainly " my family don't need this so we shouldn't have it". If your family doesn't need support from or help from or indeed intervention from a NAmed Person then they won't get it. But if they do then it's right that it is there and not lacking surely.
    Nobody in Orkney needed to be saved, that's the point, children were taken away from their families because of something made up in a social workers head, a snippet from the enquiry -

    "Liz McLean, the social worker who led the interviews with the children, had also been involved in the 1990 Rochdale "Satanic Abuse" case. She was later sharply criticised by Lord Clyde in the official inquiry into the South Ronaldsay case, and in another investigation into similar allegations in Ayrshire".

    As you point out, if a family does not need help help or support from the named person they won't get it, do you honestly think the parents or whoever was responsible for the murder of Baby P would have told their named person what they were going to do with the child? of course not, they would have told their named person they didn't want or need support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Here you go cpt instead of listening to flim flam from the org activist why not read for yourself. No better source than the Scot gov website which just happens to note all the problems.



    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/06/9933/7


    Once again a gross understatement by our defacto SNP spokesperson the issue is more than just if you've done nothing you've got nothing to worry about. It's about a heavy handed badly thought out poorly drafted piece of legislations the potential of misuse cannot be understated. Also lets be honest hear the appeals process is tortuous at best so it's a system already mired in controversy before it's even launche. Let alone the court case that seems to be destined to hit the European courts.
    That link looks to me that somebody, whoever it was that came up with this bright idea, they have thought nothing through. They have just had an idea and said it out loud and run with it, there are so many gaps in it, it is just not workable.

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    Funnily enough the legislation is being forced through despite all the involved organisations saying there will be major issues with implementation.

    How happy would any parent be when an over zealous social worker takes a snippet of information from a child and circulates it around numerous government organisations.

    The parameters for the whole scheme are so loosely defined it's just a poor solution looking for a problem to fix.

    How do you quantify how happy a child is ?

    Are they spiritual?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Funnily enough the legislation is being forced through despite all the involved organisations saying there will be major issues with implementation.

    How happy would any parent be when an over zealous social worker takes a snippet of information from a child and circulates it around numerous government organisations.

    The parameters for the whole scheme are so loosely defined it's just a poor solution looking for a problem to fix.

    How do you quantify how happy a child is ?

    Are they spiritual?
    All this says to me is the SNP does not trust parents that they will be able to raise and care for their children. I don't care what reason is given for it, I find it very sanctimonious. If anybody thinks this is going to stop child abuse/neglect then they are sadly mistaken, unless their named person is going to be with the child/children 24 hours a day.

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