George Galloway

[Rheghead]

Don't forget where they got their Scuds and Migs from as well.

And we were bad? The soviets were an order of magnitude worse by supplying over 90% of Iraqi arms, France and Germany were also bad offenders.

I know an old song 'I danced with a girl who danced with a man who dealt in penetrator sales'

[JAWS]

And we were bad? The soviets were an order of magnitude worse by supplying over 90% of Iraqi arms, France and Germany were also bad offenders.

I know an old song 'I danced with a girl who danced with a man who dealt in penetrator sales'

Shush! Don't say a word! It spoils the story that it was all our fault.
The Scuds and the Migs were actually supplied by American NeoCons and saying otherwise is nothing more than propaganda.
And don't mention who supplied the radar for Saddam.

[Rheghead]

.
And don't mention who supplied the radar for Saddam.

Ah but try as he might, even Saddam would struggle to kill anybody with radar.

[fred]

Let me get this right, I wasn't aware that Matrix-Churchill was Iraqi owned. Aren't you getting confused with the scandal when they sold machine parts to Iraq under the Thatcher administration?

Same company, Iraqi owned if you were aware of it or not.

Back to the US selling arms to Iraq. If America sells components through a third party and a guy down the road and he sells them on to Iraq then how can the US be blamed?

They didn't, Matrix Churchill Ohio was an Iraqi owned American company, the parts were shipped to Matrix Churchill Ltd UK, an Iraqi owned British company before being sent on to Iraq. However you look at it American companies sold arms to Iraq and "The United States made a policy decision to supply penetrators to Iraq." means the American government organised it.

A loan of money can be used for all sorts of uses, civillian and military, what Saddam did with the money was his business, a loan is not a gun.

In this case the loan to Matrix Churchill Ohio was used to pay for arms shipped to Iraq from American companies.

I thought you said you'd done some research.

[Rheghead]

Iraqi control of Matrix-Churchill, a British company, was only known to a few top ranking Matrix-Churchill officials until it was leaked to British Intelligence. IOW, US companies were totally unaware that these components, not arms, were destined for Iraq.

No prosecutions have ever been substantiated against US firms in relation to US export law due to the hidden nature of Matrix-Churchill Iraqi control.

I repeat, the US did not sell arms to Saddam.

Must try harder...

[pultneytooner]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq›s missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act.

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of dual-use export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application.

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80›s using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians.

July, 1992. The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons. Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House.

http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archiv...2/20030223.php

[fred]

I repeat, the US did not sell arms to Saddam.

I think pultneytooner hit the nail right on the head when he said "rubbish".

Armour penetrating shells are arms, they were manufactured in the USA and sold to Iraq, a senior American state department official has sworn that it was a deliberate act on the part of the American government.

America did sell arms to Iraq.

America supplied Iraq with massive amounts of arms through third parties as you well know but those arms were sold directly.

[celtic 302]

I agree who do the American think they are? Can you imagine a future Iraqi government inquest finding Goerge Bush guilty of mass murder or extortion then expecting him to serve some sort of sentance in Iraq

The USA seem to think they are the worlds police and thirs and only teir view point is the true and umblemished view.

thing the Senate Committee were toatlly humilitated by George as was said he let em have it both barrels

2 things. 1, the USA are the strongest country in the world, and would u like to get in to an argument with a country that controls more power than most of europe added together (inculding GB)

2, how anyone can support george galloway is beyond me. the man should be locked up in either prison or an asylum

[pultneytooner]

2 things. 1, the USA are the strongest country in the world, and would u like to get in to an argument with a country that controls more power than most of europe added together (inculding GB)

2, how anyone can support george galloway is beyond me. the man should be locked up in either prison or an asylum

1: Too much power in the hands of one country can never be seen as a good thing.
2: 'George Galloway should be locked up in prison or an asylum', Do you know something the u.s senate don't, I'm sure they'd be interested to hear from you?

[Rheghead]

I think pultneytooner hit the nail right on the head when he said "rubbish".

Armour penetrating shells are arms, they were manufactured in the USA and sold to Iraq, a senior American state department official has sworn that it was a deliberate act on the part of the American government.

America did sell arms to Iraq.

America supplied Iraq with massive amounts of arms through third parties as you well know but those arms were sold directly.

As yet you have provided no proof. Even if those components were sold directly under duped circumstances, is that all you got on the US?

I think it is 'rubbish' when Galloway said the US 'armed' Iraq, it was certainly a severe muddying of the waters of history anyway.

[Rheghead]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq

November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq›s missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act.

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of dual-use export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application.

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax.

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80›s using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians.

July, 1992. The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons. Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House.

http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archiv...2/20030223.php

All those items have civillian uses except the bombs and howitzers in October 1983 which I would like more details on, I am not prepared to take it on face value.

Again, the US did not sell arms to Iraq!

[fred]

As yet you have provided no proof. Even if those components were sold directly under duped circumstances, is that all you got on the US?

I think it is 'rubbish' when Galloway said the US 'armed' Iraq, it was certainly a severe muddying of the waters of history anyway.

I provided a sworn statement from a senior American State department official saying that America armed Iraq. Do you have any proof that they didn't?

No, the US did arm Iraq, it is muddying the waters saying that by supplying them with foreign made arms through third parties that they didn't.

[Rheghead]

Do you have any proof that they didn't?

Yes, the complete lack of NBC and American weaponry in Saddam's arsenal.

[fred]

Yes, the complete lack of NBC and American weaponry in Saddam's arsenal.

Saddam certainly did have biological and chemical weapons supplied by America, doccuments proving it were presented to a senate investigation. They were the first to be handed over to UN weapons inspectors and included on their inventory.

As for other arms, who makes them and who supplies them are two different things.

Did you have anything in the way of evidence not just the cheap twisting of words we've had from you so far?

[Rheghead]

Twisting of words? LOL that is rich coming from the 'conspiracy king'

BTW, that must be a first time for you to believe a sworn statement from an American!