tax credit cuts

[BetterTogether]

Have I mentioned a totalitarian mentality of late, and it the fact I have absolutely zero respect for it.


Lets not not mention our illustrious first minister Nicola Sturgeon and her somewhat immodest wage.

But never mind all is well as long as you're still kowtowing to the quasi messianic leaders and her acolytes, £75k our local man " Paul " ( yes it could be he of movie fame so odd are his rantings ) is upset because he can't check in his " hand luggage " with easy jet.

[rob murray]

I know. That was my original point. Top is doing too well. Exactly why govt should just up the min wage, remove millions from govt assistance when they are at it, and it will help the wider economy.

Think about it. If you have a CEO on 100k, thats top 3% of workers, 97% earn less than him.

Now he has 20 employees on £7 and hour and eligible for tax credits of various flavours.

Up that to £8 an hour for them all. Yearly cost for a 40 hour week - £41600 in total + some NI. Now, unless CEO dude here is 11x more productive than the bloke on the minimum wage then the market has failed (I would bet he's not). Yet I would bet a 40k payrise for a successful company for Mr CEO would not break the company, and given how wages at the top have went in the past 30 years I am probably making an underestmation.

You can stretch that uplift over a few years if you want too. Premise is the same.

And thats why the govt should just mandate it. Jobs wont go anywhere simply because there is more money in the economy going round in more pockets.

In the real world ie not public sector and high paying bank jobs, people get paid the going rate which for some professions is in excess of £60k...why...because they have skills / expereince that merit that type of money. There is nothing stopping anyone from studying and developing themselves, gaining expereince and through time gaining good wages maybe not £60k but in some parts thats not extravagent. What you dont seem to grasp is the CEO is responsible for company and therefore the emplyees if he f 's up and company takes massive hit..he's out on his lug, thats why he gets £100k plus..because he / she has the expereince and the buck stops with him/ her.ANyone on £8 per hour is not managing work nor getting work they do the work and if the company doesnt get work they are out on their lug to. SO I cannot for the life of me get your logic....take from those who carry the can and give to those who do the actual work ?

[weezer 316]

In short yes.

The buck all to often doenst stop with with them though. Prime example recently, Carly Fiorina. By ANY measure she was a disastrous CEO of HP from the Compaq acquisition that cost the company 20 000 jobs to recover from such was the hole she put on the balance sheet. She left with a $47m handshake. Who "carried the can" there I ask?

Same thing happens all the time in smaller businesses. A mate of mine down in Aberdeeen once told me about a 3rd house his boss had just bought outright, then a few months later a pay freeze was implemented and several redundancies were announced. Boss though was OK and still is. that was onyl a few years ago. Who carried the can there too I ask?

Fact is, responsibility isnt a measure of wages, production is. Its about a bottom line. Sport is a prime example, an efficent market at last in temrs of wages, the best players get the most, the ones the team depends on gets the most. The manager almost NEVER earns more. And if the company depends on the emplyee doing his job to run, the he clearly has a measure of responsibility.

Thats an extreme example but that the premise. Meritocracy is the name of the game.

[rob murray]

In short yes.

The buck all to often doenst stop with with them though. Prime example recently, Carly Fiorina. By ANY measure she was a disastrous CEO of HP from the Compaq acquisition that cost the company 20 000 jobs to recover from such was the hole she put on the balance sheet. She left with a $47m handshake. Who "carried the can" there I ask?

Same thing happens all the time in smaller businesses. A mate of mine down in Aberdeeen once told me about a 3rd house his boss had just bought outright, then a few months later a pay freeze was implemented and several redundancies were announced. Boss though was OK and still is. that was onyl a few years ago. Who carried the can there too I ask?

Fact is, responsibility isnt a measure of wages, production is. Its about a bottom line. Sport is a prime example, an efficent market at last in temrs of wages, the best players get the most, the ones the team depends on gets the most. The manager almost NEVER earns more. And if the company depends on the emplyee doing his job to run, the he clearly has a measure of responsibility.

Thats an extreme example but that the premise. Meritocracy is the name of the game.

True a good football manager gets results keeps his job, similar in business, crap and yer out. The boss you site is a greeday exploiter and yer mate shoulda jumped ship as soon as he was given an important job to do left the geezer in the sh...

[rogermellie]

all this despite David Cameron's pre election 'promise' not cut child tax credits

(the comments on this clip are disgustingly accurate - bar the obvious one)

[tonkatojo]

I cannot understand why working people are conned every time these torys open the lying mouths and believe them, ​I question my own intelligence wondering how gullible people are.

[rob murray]

I cannot understand why working people are conned every time these torys open the lying mouths and believe them, ​I question my own intelligence wondering how gullible people are.

Well lets wait and see what the Lords do......this is fast turning out to be a real sore one for Tories, so dont be surprised if a compromise is made ie staging in cuts over time so that nowt gets cut until the national wage hits the ground. Its either that or the Lords kick it into touch and we will have a constitutional issue, even though the Lords are fully entitled to kick it into touch as it was not in the Tory manifesto.

[weezer 316]

Well lets wait and see what the Lords do......this is fast turning out to be a real sore one for Tories, so dont be surprised if a compromise is made ie staging in cuts over time so that nowt gets cut until the national wage hits the ground. Its either that or the Lords kick it into touch and we will have a constitutional issue, even though the Lords are fully entitled to kick it into touch as it was not in the Tory manifesto.

Yeah they should. Like I say the tories are right in raising wages but wrong it cutting the tax credits. Just legislate the correct size of wage rise to remove the people from the eligibility and no one will whinge. Business moan incessantly it will cost jobs and it never does when the ones in charge up their pay way above inflation year on year. There is a website documenting the CBI's position on such things over the past 30 years and they have opposed every wage rise and holiday change going and have been proven wrong every time.

And raise taxes when we are at it.

[rob murray]

Yeah they should. Like I say the tories are right in raising wages but wrong it cutting the tax credits. Just legislate the correct size of wage rise to remove the people from the eligibility and no one will whinge. Business moan incessantly it will cost jobs and it never does when the ones in charge up their pay way above inflation year on year. There is a website documenting the CBI's position on such things over the past 30 years and they have opposed every wage rise and holiday change going and have been proven wrong every time.

And raise taxes when we are at it.

If the government can look after their own employees and raise their wages now so that they are no longer in a position to claim tax credits ( same with all public sector jobs ) then the private sector will need to follow suit so as to tempt employees away from the public sector.....surely ???

[BetterTogether]

The reformation of tax credits is in principle the right thing to do. What is required is some adjustment to ensure those with the lowest incomes are not unduly affected.

[rob murray]

The reformation of tax credits is in principle the right thing to do. What is required is some adjustment to ensure those with the lowest incomes are not unduly affected.

That is the crux of it, move from benefits in work, to living wages, drop the benefits = higher pay, nowt wrong with that, the big picture is the creation of a high wage / low tax economy thats why tax credits are being targeted....allegedly

[BetterTogether]

But it isn't everyone on tax credits who will be severely affected. I'm afraid I have little sympathy with the likes of the woman with six children decrying the system, since when did the state become the paymaster for having a large family. The system should rightly be capped at two children and then those on low earnings assisted. Not a panacea for having a large family you cannot support even with good wages. I know very few people even on higher incomes who would find 4,5 or 6 children responsible if you're unable to provide a sufficiently high paying income for yourself without state support.

[weezer 316]

If the government can look after their own employees and raise their wages now so that they are no longer in a position to claim tax credits ( same with all public sector jobs ) then the private sector will need to follow suit so as to tempt employees away from the public sector.....surely ???

I am not too sure that would make a difference but I see what you mean. It would be a start I suppose.

Reality is most companies, vast majority (including every one I have ever worked for including present) wont raise your wages unless they feel compelled to do so either by law or having their hands forced by the employee, most of whom wont say a word and just hope for the best. I worked for BT for 7 years and in the first 5 I got 1 payrise of 18p an hour. Meanwhile BT never made less than £1.4bn profit AFTER tax bar one year when it made a loss of £80m.

I feel there needs to be a link with productivity and boardroom pay. Pay should capped at say 15x the lowest bands average or something along these line, that way if director pay goes up so does employees, as well as a link to productivity for the average of your position. That way it creates upwards pressures on wages.

The current system is effectively a subsidy to low paid workers that companies receive through the tills. They are right to attack it but force it upon those paying the wages, not receiving.

[cptdodger]

This was in Dundee's Evening Telegraph tonight -

"A row has broken out over the number of people earning more than £50,000 at the city council at a time when thousands of workers face losing their jobs.

The leader of Dundee City Council’s Labour opposition, Councillor Kevin Keenan, has asked the council’s chief executive to investigate the situation.
In an e-mail to David Martin, Mr Keenan said the “position did not sit well” given the pressure the council was currently under.
Mr Keenan said figures released in Dundee City Council’s annual accounts revealed that last year, 18 people joined the top earnings bracket.
He added that was at a time of finding £7 million budget cuts.
Mr Keenan added: “Given that we face a further budget cut of £28 million during the next two years this does not sit well.”
Earlier this week the council’s finance convener Councillor Willie Sawers warned nowhere would escape the impact of finding the £28 million savings.
He warned it was inevitable there would be job cuts, although he promised there would be no compulsory redundancies and said savings would be achieved through voluntary redundancies.
A report to go before the council’s policy and resources committee on Monday also reveals the council plans to re-structure senior management positions.
They hope to save £400,000 towards the budget savings by doing so.
However, Mr Keenan said given 18 new posts had been created, any restructuring would simply take them back to the position they were in a year ago and wouldn’t save any extra money.
He said: ”We cannot afford to have any other potential overspend and whilst we look to shed workforce through redundancy and voluntary early retirement. There is the potential for a great deal of knowledge to be lost increasing the risk for the council.”
Mr Keenan has asked that at a minimum, a sub-committee is formed to over-view the HR process.
There are 166 council employees earning between £50,000 and £140,000.
A council spokesman said: “The chief executive will respond to Councillor Keenan directly in due course.”

[weezer 316]

This was in Dundee's Evening Telegraph tonight -

"A row has broken out over the number of people earning more than £50,000 at the city council at a time when thousands of workers face losing their jobs.

The leader of Dundee City Council’s Labour opposition, Councillor Kevin Keenan, has asked the council’s chief executive to investigate the situation.
In an e-mail to David Martin, Mr Keenan said the “position did not sit well” given the pressure the council was currently under.
Mr Keenan said figures released in Dundee City Council’s annual accounts revealed that last year, 18 people joined the top earnings bracket.
He added that was at a time of finding £7 million budget cuts.
Mr Keenan added: “Given that we face a further budget cut of £28 million during the next two years this does not sit well.”
Earlier this week the council’s finance convener Councillor Willie Sawers warned nowhere would escape the impact of finding the £28 million savings.
He warned it was inevitable there would be job cuts, although he promised there would be no compulsory redundancies and said savings would be achieved through voluntary redundancies.
A report to go before the council’s policy and resources committee on Monday also reveals the council plans to re-structure senior management positions.
They hope to save £400,000 towards the budget savings by doing so.
However, Mr Keenan said given 18 new posts had been created, any restructuring would simply take them back to the position they were in a year ago and wouldn’t save any extra money.
He said: ”We cannot afford to have any other potential overspend and whilst we look to shed workforce through redundancy and voluntary early retirement. There is the potential for a great deal of knowledge to be lost increasing the risk for the council.”
Mr Keenan has asked that at a minimum, a sub-committee is formed to over-view the HR process.
There are 166 council employees earning between £50,000 and £140,000.
A council spokesman said: “The chief executive will respond to Councillor Keenan directly in due course.”

Mental. Just mental. Unless those positions belong to extreme technical specialists then that is where one of the serious issues lies with our current model. A manager cannot be worth 140k a year at a council when the first minister and PM earns that and that should be the extreme upper limit for positions like that.

Drives me nuts. This is why taxes should be raised. I would bet my house many of these people are essentially admin staff bar they get to go to meetings. Link it to productivity, probably on min wage.

[cptdodger]

Although I live here now, what I find really galling is the Victoria and Albert Museum they are building at the waterfront in Dundee. £80 million and rising, it's not even out the ground yet. At least £6.5 million is coming out of the Councils budget.

“Given that we face a further budget cut of £28 million during the next two years this does not sit well.”

How they justify that cost for a building is beyond me.

[cptdodger]

For anybody that ever questioned the need for The House Of Lords -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34631156

[Fulmar]

You should have seen Dundee a few years back when it was well in the doldrums. Now, it's being re-vitalised with all sorts of development and innovation going on of which the new V and A forms a part. Investment brings jobs and a thriving local economy, hopefully, at least that is the rationale. The V and A will be a superb building- leading architects from all over the world competed over its design and the people of Dundee chose the winner. It will bring in people from all over the world to visit it- (I think so anyway) and will pay back the investment through the money they spend when they are in the city- plus it will be a source of employment. What would the steel towns give for something like that- or Wick, for that matter. Maybe I am being simplistic but I like to see what is happening in Dundee and hope it thrives. I shall continue to go there anyway!

[cptdodger]

You should have seen Dundee a few years back when it was well in the doldrums. Now, it's being re-vitalised with all sorts of development and innovation going on of which the new V and A forms a part. Investment brings jobs and a thriving local economy, hopefully, at least that is the rationale. The V and A will be a superb building- leading architects from all over the world competed over its design and the people of Dundee chose the winner. It will bring in people from all over the world to visit it- (I think so anyway) and will pay back the investment through the money they spend when they are in the city- plus it will be a source of employment. What would the steel towns give for something like that- or Wick, for that matter. Maybe I am being simplistic but I like to see what is happening in Dundee and hope it thrives. I shall continue to go there anyway!

Are you from Dundee ?

Have you ever lived in Dundee?

[cptdodger]

You should have seen Dundee a few years back when it was well in the doldrums. Now, it's being re-vitalised with all sorts of development and innovation going on of which the new V and A forms a part. Investment brings jobs and a thriving local economy, hopefully, at least that is the rationale. The V and A will be a superb building- leading architects from all over the world competed over its design and the people of Dundee chose the winner. It will bring in people from all over the world to visit it- (I think so anyway) and will pay back the investment through the money they spend when they are in the city- plus it will be a source of employment. What would the steel towns give for something like that- or Wick, for that matter. Maybe I am being simplistic but I like to see what is happening in Dundee and hope it thrives. I shall continue to go there anyway!

I think it's a safe bet to say I saw Dundee a few years back as I was born in Broughty Ferry in the 60's and lived in Dundee before moving here.

The V&A, well, if that design won a competition, I would hate to have seen the designs that lost, you would be hard pressed to come up with a design that is worse than that monstosity they are attempting to build.

I don't know what the steel towns or Wick would give to have a council so much in debt that it has to cut a further £28 million from the budget, where there is poverty, food banks and children going hungry on a daily basis. What do you think the steel towns and Wick would give for that ?

I wouldn't worry about the poverty, the need for food banks and so on because we will have a shiny new building, in say about three years time that probably will have cost somewhere in the region of £100 million plus.

Next time you go to Dundee, don't just stay in the City Centre (what's left of it) go round the schemes, especially Charleston, Fintry, Beechwood, I could name a lot more, then come back and tell me how brilliant it is for Dundee that we have to pour money hand over fist on this one building.


https://www.facebook.com/VandADundee...type=3&theater