Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'

[BetterTogether]

Hate to say this but that's what happens when you expect the state to look after you from cradle to grave. Some state support is ok but the entire state system has grown well beyond what it was ever intended to be and spawned a whole industry of self serving individuals who will have you believe that it's the states job to do everything for you. Why because they make a very nice living out of it and it keeps them in jobs earning wages they'd never dream of out in the private sector. Another area that needs a radical shake up is the charity sector, I'm not saying charity is bad or we shouldn't give to worthy causes, what I'm saying is can we really justify so many charities supplying the same services to the same causes just eating up donations on money for staff and infrastructure that could and should go directly to those they aim to support. Just think how much more money would go to third world countries if we had just one major charity. Or one dog and one cat charity. The money lost to employing directors, paying for offices and all the rest would do far more good going to those that need it.

[roshep]

Sorry is it wheezer or whinger !!!. Myself and many other pensioners would gladly contribute 10 per cent of our state pension to see the deficit gone, saying that how much would you be prepared to contribute ?. you will no doubt say you are paying into the pot at the moment as I did from the age of 15 till retirement

[theone]

Sorry is it wheezer or whinger !!!. Myself and many other pensioners would gladly contribute 10 per cent of our state pension to see the deficit gone,

I would guess wou are in the minority.

There would be OUTRAGE in the press/media if state pensions were cut by 10%.

[Fulmar]

I think it is also worth bearing in mind, Wheezer, that many of those in what you identify as the selfish post-war baby boomer generation are directly supporting people of your generation with everything from direct financial aid to spending their retirement giving un-paid childcare. OK it may only be for the support of their own children and grandchildren but not everyone is 'living it up' on their ill-gotten gains. Also, the material things taken for granted as rights by younger people were un-heard of among my generation when young. We were expected to work, work, work for absolutely everything and jobs were not necessarily easy to come by. To be grateful for second hand furniture handed down etc and to save up if you wanted to buy a particular more expensive item. Oh, and the biggie for me is that hardly anyone I knew had a car and did not expect to have one either. I think if you had lived in that world, you might have a more enlightened opinion and to blame today's pensioners is just ridiculous- none of us had a crystal ball to see what was lying a lifetime ahead and we just got on with life in the world that we inhabited.

[weezer 316]

Sorry is it wheezer or whinger !!!. Myself and many other pensioners would gladly contribute 10 per cent of our state pension to see the deficit gone, saying that how much would you be prepared to contribute ?. you will no doubt say you are paying into the pot at the moment as I did from the age of 15 till retirement

Neither, its weezer.

Good. Im glad you would. I personally could easily pay more tax and in fact I think almost all bar the oldest should. I want a welfare state, christ I was raised by it, and the fact I am 10 years into a mortgage and have thousands in savings tells me I can pay more in tax, not to mention the fact a night out or two less a year wouldnt hurt and that money going to the govt could help keep the support structures in place that support many of societies poorest.

I am paying into the pot, the difference is I can and should pay more, as we all should. I am under no illusions I will see a state pension and if I do it will be a pittance, and the blame is squarley at your generations feet as this could have been fixed years ago. Instead the can was kicked down the road as the bill once your gone is not something to worry about.

[weezer 316]

I think it is also worth bearing in mind, Wheezer, that many of those in what you identify as the selfish post-war baby boomer generation are directly supporting people of your generation with everything from direct financial aid to spending their retirement giving un-paid childcare. OK it may only be for the support of their own children and grandchildren but not everyone is 'living it up' on their ill-gotten gains. Also, the material things taken for granted as rights by younger people were un-heard of among my generation when young. We were expected to work, work, work for absolutely everything and jobs were not necessarily easy to come by. To be grateful for second hand furniture handed down etc and to save up if you wanted to buy a particular more expensive item. Oh, and the biggie for me is that hardly anyone I knew had a car and did not expect to have one either. I think if you had lived in that world, you might have a more enlightened opinion and to blame today's pensioners is just ridiculous- none of us had a crystal ball to see what was lying a lifetime ahead and we just got on with life in the world that we inhabited.

I hate to upset the apple cart here but helping your family, you kow ones you created, is not something to boast about. You just do it.

You have not only left us with a pension crisis, and thats a biggie because unless you start bumping folk off you are stuck paying it, but also a housing crisis. I am one of very few folk my age that owns my own home and your generation, again, is the reason why. Decided to sell all the council houses to yourselves and stop building them. The result is a generation that cant afford a home of their own and frankly are stuck paying private rents that eat up anything from 30-60% of their wages. Your generation didnt have that and the result is a sprial of debt, while trying to pay a private pension and god knows what else.

[rob murray]

I hate to upset the apple cart here but helping your family, you kow ones you created, is not something to boast about. You just do it.

You have not only left us with a pension crisis, and thats a biggie because unless you start bumping folk off you are stuck paying it, but also a housing crisis. I am one of very few folk my age that owns my own home and your generation, again, is the reason why. Decided to sell all the council houses to yourselves and stop building them. The result is a generation that cant afford a home of their own and frankly are stuck paying private rents that eat up anything from 30-60% of their wages. Your generation didnt have that and the result is a sprial of debt, while trying to pay a private pension and god knows what else.

We, as you put it didnt sell of council houses, it was government policy and not everyone voted for the government at the time, its called democracy, first past the post even with 30% of the vote calls the shots and theres nowt you or I or anyone can do about it. STop blaming " your generation".......ie a homogenous mass / we / all of us created the mess....we bloody didnt, try studying a bit of political history. Oh and are you telling me you cant get a house in Caithness from the council or Albyn / Cairn etc....plenty houses in WIck are available. You made the choice to buy, no one forced you to. State pensions are miserable, so anyone with any sense years back took out private pensions, anyway your employer ( if you work which I presume ) and you will be contributing to your pension pot.....so your covered

[weezer 316]

We, as you put it didnt sell of council houses, it was government policy and not everyone voted for the government at the time, its called democracy, first past the post even with 30% of the vote calls the shots and theres nowt you or I or anyone can do about it. STop blaming " your generation".......ie a homogenous mass / we / all of us created the mess....we bloody didnt, try studying a bit of political history. Oh and are you telling me you cant get a house in Caithness from the council or Albyn / Cairn etc....plenty houses in WIck are available. You made the choice to buy, no one forced you to. State pensions are miserable, so anyone with any sense years back took out private pensions, anyway your employer ( if you work which I presume ) and you will be contributing to your pension pot.....so your covered

You didnt have to buy them though, did you? You did. Many who didnt vote for it took full advantage of it. Infact given the paucity of tory voters on estates like I was brought up on that are now mostly private I would bet its a bit of doublethink on behalf of the masses. Like I say, I am lucky and even then it was only govt assistance that got me my house.

No, my employer doesn't contribute to my pension and never has.

Im not worried about me, its the position in general my generation finds itself in.

You did create it. That democracy you talk of guides govt policy and neither seemed to care too much about the future. We are lumped with it and the pensions probelm is the most infuriating part of it as I will "contribute my whole life" and likely see nothing without radical reform.

[cptdodger]

You didnt have to buy them though, did you? You did. Many who didnt vote for it took full advantage of it. Infact given the paucity of tory voters on estates like I was brought up on that are now mostly private I would bet its a bit of doublethink on behalf of the masses. Like I say, I am lucky and even then it was only govt assistance that got me my house.

No, my employer doesn't contribute to my pension and never has.

Im not worried about me, its the position in general my generation finds itself in.

You did create it. That democracy you talk of guides govt policy and neither seemed to care too much about the future. We are lumped with it and the pensions probelm is the most infuriating part of it as I will "contribute my whole life" and likely see nothing without radical reform.

Why is it so important to you that you own your own house ?

[weezer 316]

Why is it so important to you that you own your own house ?

Because otherwise I will be stuck paying unsustainable rents for the rest of my life and that is a direct result of previous govt policy and previous generations choices to sell all the council houses and not build any more. Pretty obvious I would have thought,

Anyway, its off topic now, pensions should be cut completely, everyone bar the very lowest earners put to a private pensions and the state pension phased out to new entrants from everyone else. And when we are at it, raise taxes across the board.

[BetterTogether]

Ok weezer you make some fair points but where do you draw the line for those who you consider the very lowest earners and those close to it you'd then find that maybe the ones who are placed into a governement pension scheme could well end up with a better pension on those who were on just a low wage.
You'll never get away from some sort of inequality but you can't make a system that pays more for either doing nothing or lowest wage than for working in a low paid job.
When you start to consider the wider ramifications of any individual action you end up tying yourself in real knots.

The premise of what you're saying is good though but implementing it could be problematic.

What you have to remember in today's political landscape those with little or nothing are frequently better represented than the middle ground.

[weezer 316]

Ok weezer you make some fair points but where do you draw the line for those who you consider the very lowest earners and those close to it you'd then find that maybe the ones who are placed into a governement pension scheme could well end up with a better pension on those who were on just a low wage.
You'll never get away from some sort of inequality but you can't make a system that pays more for either doing nothing or lowest wage than for working in a low paid job.
When you start to consider the wider ramifications of any individual action you end up tying yourself in real knots.

The premise of what you're saying is good though but implementing it could be problematic.

What you have to remember in today's political landscape those with little or nothing are frequently better represented than the middle ground.

Why cant someone with a lower wage end up with a pension that is higher than than someone of a higher wage? It happens all the time if you take a private one out. If your trying to insinuate people will take lower paid jobs to avoid havig to pay into a private pension then your nuts.

It is complicated but at this rate no one will have one. You would tie contributions to life expectancy and then your contributions would go to either the govt or your private pension based on what you earned that year. I would put a cut off around 80% but obviously it would depend on what was sustainable in the long term. Possibly even a tiered scheme where say bottom 15% are covered, ad the 15% on top of that receivee govt assistance on top of the private contributions they will be paying as a top up. After that, cut it off. You earn 30k a year, that puts you comfortablly in the copy half of earners in this country, pay your own way.

In short, if your wage that year puts you in the 20% of the lowest earners, it goes to govt with govt subsidising the rest. If your above that, its private. You should be forced to do this like you are with taxes as otherwise many wont bother to save anything.

Those will little or nothing need to be better represented, Without assistance from a young age those with nothing will always have nothing bar the very fewest of cases. I dont own a house, have a good job and manage to bring my brother up on just becuase of my own work ethic you know. The govt helped me massively and should continue to do so for those in the position I found myself in when I was a child.

[cptdodger]

Because otherwise I will be stuck paying unsustainable rents for the rest of my life and that is a direct result of previous govt policy and previous generations choices to sell all the council houses and not build any more. Pretty obvious I would have thought,

Well you kept going on about it that is why I asked. So, because you don't want to pay unsustainable rents for the rest of your life, would you not think that would be the same for council tenants? My parents bought their council house, so they are a pair of irresponsible people who did not demand to know before they bought the house whether more were going to be built.

My mother has lived in that house since she was 8 years old, she left when she married, and moved back four years later when my Grandmother died, I was born there two years later. As of 2015 she has lived in that house for a total of 76 years, so when they had the offer to buy the house they took it.

You are blaming my parents and many thousands more like them for the lack of action taken by the Government to replace housing stock that was sold. If only they had that much power.

[rob murray]

You didnt have to buy them though, did you? You did. Many who didnt vote for it took full advantage of it. Infact given the paucity of tory voters on estates like I was brought up on that are now mostly private I would bet its a bit of doublethink on behalf of the masses. Like I say, I am lucky and even then it was only govt assistance that got me my house.

No, my employer doesn't contribute to my pension and never has.

Im not worried about me, its the position in general my generation finds itself in.

You did create it. That democracy you talk of guides govt policy and neither seemed to care too much about the future. We are lumped with it and the pensions probelm is the most infuriating part of it as I will "contribute my whole life" and likely see nothing without radical reform.

Yep plenty people did, check out pensions...as far as I know, from I think its next year, by law your employer has to "enrol" you in their company pension scheme, they pay minimum of 3% and you pay 3% although you can pay more in, so check this out. The sooner you get started the more you will pay in that will be paid out along what the state pension will be when you retire...oh...drop the "you" pal....talk sense....we created nowt as you put it.....oh and .many folk over the past couple of years have had their age of retirement actualy increased, I cant get a state pension until I am 66 and there are many more like me......your generation as you put it, now will 100% have access to employer pension schemes by law, ours didnt, the public sector yes...private sector generally no.....so check this out and ask your employer when he / she is going to start the scheme https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pension...place-pensions : your generation are also going to benefit from major changes in pensions...ie the ability to get 25% of your total pension fund paid to you in a oner....ours got sweet fa, most folk got the basic state pension....so get your facts right.

[Fulmar]

Spot on, cptdodger!
Also, you Weezer, seem to be contradicting yourself. In an earlier post you are buying but above, you say that you don't own a house so which is it?
My parents-in-law never owned their own home. They were working people who privately rented their two up two down terrace house in a poor area of Sheffield all their days. They would have liked to have bought the house but the owner (who was a distant relative) would not sell it to them but left them to fund all the improvements, including installation of a bathroom. When I was a kid, it was not uncommon to still be using a tin bath filled from the sink in the kitchen. What does that prove, nothing!
My kids belong to your generation. You speak as though we are somehow divorced from it but I understand their problems only too well. None of mine can afford to buy- they pay private (and in one case (in London), exorbitant rents with little or no long term security. They don't whinge about it but accept it and in fact, think that because they rent, they can afford to live somewhere nicer within the cities in which they live. All money goes on making ends meet and little left for pension provision at the moment but we help out and we all hope that things will change. You don't want to pay unsustainable rents- well mine have no choice and yet you are blaming me and others like me for the situation. NO WAY!

[rob murray]

Spot on, cptdodger!
Also, you Weezer, seem to be contradicting yourself. In an earlier post you are buying but above, you say that you don't own a house so which is it?
My parents-in-law never owned their own home. They were working people who privately rented their two up two down terrace house in a poor area of Sheffield all their days. They would have liked to have bought the house but the owner (who was a distant relative) would not sell it to them but left them to fund all the improvements, including installation of a bathroom. When I was a kid, it was not uncommon to still be using a tin bath filled from the sink in the kitchen. What does that prove, nothing!
My kids belong to your generation. You speak as though we are somehow divorced from it but I understand their problems only too well. None of mine can afford to buy- they pay private (and in one case (in London), exorbitant rents with little or no long term security. They don't whinge about it but accept it and in fact, think that because they rent, they can afford to live somewhere nicer within the cities in which they live. All money goes on making ends meet and little left for pension provision at the moment but we help out and we all hope that things will change. You don't want to pay unsustainable rents- well mine have no choice and yet you are blaming me and others like me for the situation. NO WAY!

My son pays £650 a month for a single small room in London, and has to pay his share of bills as well, doesnt have an employer pension scheme as of yet, cant afford to pay into one of his own, and just gets on with it nejoying London !!!

[theone]

You are blaming my parents and many thousands more like them for the lack of action taken by the Government to replace housing stock that was sold. If only they had that much power.

Were they not allowed to vote?

Did they, and their generation, not vote for political parties that promised unsustainable pensions for all and sold housing without replacing it?

Everyone blames the government for policy. The people choose the government so ultimately policy.

[cptdodger]

Were they not allowed to vote?

Did they, and their generation, not vote for political parties that promised unsustainable pensions for all and sold housing without replacing it?

Everyone blames the government for policy. The people choose the government so ultimately policy.

I have no idea who they voted for. I have a vote and vote, but I didn't vote SNP or Conservative, so when things go wrong with these parties that are in power, will it be my fault?

In reality, it should have been down to the Government of the day that decided to sell the council houses, to put in place some provision to replace them.

[theone]

I have no idea who they voted for. I have a vote and vote, but I didn't vote SNP or Conservative, so when things go wrong with these parties that are in power, will it be my fault?

Not the fault of an individual, but of a generation as a collective.

[cptdodger]

Not the fault of an individual, but of a generation as a collective.

You could say that about any generation, how will history view this generation ?