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Thread: Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'

  1. #1
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    Default Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'

    The government should waste no time in cutting pensioner benefits, advises the Taxpayers' Alliance.

    Mr Wild, who is research director of the think tank which campaigns for lower taxes and highlights examples of Government waste, said the cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons".


    "The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."


    He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

    What a charming man.

  2. #2
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    I think your "Alliance" are just UKIP-type loonies.

    But thanks for linking to them.

  3. #3
    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    I'm sure you'll find equally outrageous ideas floated from think tanks for every party.

    When they become policy there may be a case to answer until then it's just kicking about ideas.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I'm sure you'll find equally outrageous ideas floated from think tanks for every party.

    When they become policy there may be a case to answer until then it's just kicking about ideas.
    But you will agree that if true, its a cynical cruel "idea" though ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    But you will agree that if true, its a cynical cruel "idea" though ?
    Yes it's not the best I'd not be in favour of it. I doubt it will become policy.

    Better than saying you've got integrity and support the poor while ripping them off though. Eh

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    'A Think tank'.

    Think tanks can advise and suggest whatever they want, in the same way Labour's new farming minister suggests meat eaters should be treated like smokers.

    'Thinking' it, 'suggesting' and 'advising' it is not a problem. I'll worry about it if the government actually decides to try to implement it.
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    - Charles de Gaulle

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    I wish it was policy. Pensioners, and those due to claim the penson soon, have landed my generation knee deep in it, firstly by taking all the houses, not building more and then by running us into debt. I wont see a state pension yet will have worked all my life.

    If you work all your life, you should pay into a private pension. Your ENTIRE working life to pay into it. No excuses. Only those on the bare minumum should have a state pension provided for them upon retirement.

    Our pension bill is over £80bn a year. It matches our Education and defence budgets combined. Its lunacy. And I am paying for yours without hope of ever seeing mine.
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    I wish it was policy. Pensioners, and those due to claim the penson soon, have landed my generation knee deep in it, firstly by taking all the houses, not building more and then by running us into debt. I wont see a state pension yet will have worked all my life.

    If you work all your life, you should pay into a private pension. Your ENTIRE working life to pay into it. No excuses. Only those on the bare minumum should have a state pension provided for them upon retirement.

    Our pension bill is over £80bn a year. It matches our Education and defence budgets combined. Its lunacy. And I am paying for yours without hope of ever seeing mine.
    WHy not pay into a private pension, if your employed you will have one if not within next year or so.

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    Really? I have a stakeholder pension, I think it will be around.....

    Really, why not? I wont see a public pension I bet. £80bn albatross round our neck when the vast majority of these people could ad should have provided for themselves in retirement. Many managed to provide themselves with a nice house they finished paying of years ago, why not a pension? Oh I know, that can be fobbed off until the next generation.....

    Unreal. Nothing riles me more than this. Cut the pensions bill by 10% the £12bn austerity cuts could be cancelled, Consider than. WIpe that out entiterly and our budget deficit is gone.
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    Really? I have a stakeholder pension, I think it will be around.....

    Really, why not? I wont see a public pension I bet. £80bn albatross round our neck when the vast majority of these people could ad should have provided for themselves in retirement. Many managed to provide themselves with a nice house they finished paying of years ago, why not a pension? Oh I know, that can be fobbed off until the next generation.....

    Unreal. Nothing riles me more than this. Cut the pensions bill by 10% the £12bn austerity cuts could be cancelled, Consider than. WIpe that out entiterly and our budget deficit is gone.
    OK Ive paid national insurance contributions for 40 years, so I shouldnt get the miserable minimum state pension ?

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    BetterTogether is offline Banned (Sock Puppet of previously banned user)
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    I think it's fair the pensions system has had an overhaul and those in work should pay into a pension but they need to be properly regulated and managed without the big charges applied to them. The old system hasn't been working for some time and a period of transition is going to be required it wouldn't be fair those who have paid NI contributions all their lives are penalised so late in the day but those who are younger should be making provision and not expecting the state to provide everything for them when they get older.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    OK Ive paid national insurance contributions for 40 years, so I shouldnt get the miserable minimum state pension ?
    Right first off NI doesn't pay for your pension, it all goes into one big pot. If it did you would have had to pay a helluva lot more years ago.

    Either one of two things should happen.

    1) Abolish it starting now. If your older than say 40, you can claim a state pension upon retirement, but its closed to new entrants and anyone that was in the top say 80% of income earners (roughly around £15,800 pa or above just now off the top of my head) for a majority of their working lives.

    2) Continue it, but link payments to it in NI contributions (or introduce and actual pension payment to stop people deceiving themselves) to life expectancy measurements. That means as people live longer you will pay more during your working lives, possibly even a rise every year until you retire

    Its just madness. Im utterly raging my generation has been left in the position by you lot. You have literally mortgaged not only our future but actually spent the money already because you guys didnt have the forsight to provide one for yourselves or elect a govt that had the guts to spell out the obvious, namely if we live longer we need to actually pay more.
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    Right first off NI doesn't pay for your pension, it all goes into one big pot. If it did you would have had to pay a helluva lot more years ago.

    Either one of two things should happen.

    1) Abolish it starting now. If your older than say 40, you can claim a state pension upon retirement, but its closed to new entrants and anyone that was in the top say 80% of income earners (roughly around £15,800 pa or above just now off the top of my head) for a majority of their working lives.

    2) Continue it, but link payments to it in NI contributions (or introduce and actual pension payment to stop people deceiving themselves) to life expectancy measurements. That means as people live longer you will pay more during your working lives, possibly even a rise every year until you retire

    Its just madness. Im utterly raging my generation has been left in the position by you lot. You have literally mortgaged not only our future but actually spent the money already because you guys didnt have the forsight to provide one for yourselves or elect a govt that had the guts to spell out the obvious, namely if we live longer we need to actually pay more.
    Fine but an element IS allocatted towards state pensions.. raging.......youve every right to rage over the mess your generation will inherit. Dont put everyone over 50 in the same bag though, many of us have worked all our lives, paid tax ( high rates and 40% etc ) paid corporation tax etc and no government in my life time has ever properly raised the demographic issue,basically the retiring baby boomers born 1945 - 1960 and how this demographic blip is to be financed. as its a vote loser isnt it ?? SO blame the political system not individuals I didnt personally spend the money, governments did !!

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    I'm part of that generation weezer although not at state retirement age. I've got a military pension yet to start and three private pensions I've paid into, it's unfair to say that one generation has created the mess that NI now find itself in but it is fair to say that during the years that have noted it needs changing and things aren't working those on a reasonable wage should of done something to help themselves, I agree the system is broken and the charge to the public pot is unsustainable but public sector pensions which are an awful lot more generous than the private sector ones haven't helped the situation either. It's a big ole bag of worms and no ones going to be particularly happy at changes being made but you're right changes do need to be made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Fine but an element IS allocatted towards state pensions.. raging.......youve every right to rage over the mess your generation will inherit. Dont put everyone over 50 in the same bag though, many of us have worked all our lives, paid tax ( high rates and 40% etc ) paid corporation tax etc and no government in my life time has ever properly raised the demographic issue,basically the retiring baby boomers born 1945 - 1960 and how this demographic blip is to be financed. as its a vote loser isnt it ?? SO blame the political system not individuals I didnt personally spend the money, governments did !!
    Rob pensions have been on the radar for most people for the last twenty years or so it's not a bubble that's suddenly burst. A lots changed since we left school and went to work but since the mid 80s pensions and state pension have been looking more unsustainable. If you've been on a decent wage and paid the 40% tax there's very little or no reason for you not to have made some provision for yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I'm part of that generation weezer although not at state retirement age. I've got a military pension yet to start and three private pensions I've paid into, it's unfair to say that one generation has created the mess that NI now find itself in but it is fair to say that during the years that have noted it needs changing and things aren't working those on a reasonable wage should of done something to help themselves, I agree the system is broken and the charge to the public pot is unsustainable but public sector pensions which are an awful lot more generous than the private sector ones haven't helped the situation either. It's a big ole bag of worms and no ones going to be particularly happy at changes being made but you're right changes do need to be made.
    Would agree, public pensions legacy is huge and a massive burden but cant be wished away, a better deal needs pulled together for the younger generation

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Rob pensions have been on the radar for most people for the last twenty years or so it's not a bubble that's suddenly burst. A lots changed since we left school and went to work but since the mid 80s pensions and state pension have been looking more unsustainable. If you've been on a decent wage and paid the 40% tax there's very little or no reason for you not to have made some provision for yourself.
    I have but Im still entitled to the basic state pension as I feel Iv contributed

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Would agree, public pensions legacy is huge and a massive burden but cant be wished away, a better deal needs pulled together for the younger generation
    I fail to see why those in the public sector should receive preferential treatment to anyone over the private sector. There is no reason that public sector employees should receive pensions unavailable to the rest of the population. What should be made mandatory is a % of a persons pay that is paid into a pension fund of their choice if they choose to top up all well add good but just because you've got a job with the council is no reason to have a pension. But those pension schemes also need more regulations and the fees and charges controlled a lot more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    Fine but an element IS allocatted towards state pensions.. raging.......youve every right to rage over the mess your generation will inherit. Dont put everyone over 50 in the same bag though, many of us have worked all our lives, paid tax ( high rates and 40% etc ) paid corporation tax etc and no government in my life time has ever properly raised the demographic issue,basically the retiring baby boomers born 1945 - 1960 and how this demographic blip is to be financed. as its a vote loser isnt it ?? SO blame the political system not individuals I didnt personally spend the money, governments did !!
    So in short no one did the right thing, either voters or govts, because it was inconvenient, despite all knowing such an issue would one day blow up in our faces? Riles me massively. The welfare state is there to care for those who struggle to themselves, not for those who worked fine all their lives and yet simply didnt bother putting protection in place. My great aunt retired with 2 pensions and only worked in a factory her whole life. Amazing what can be done when you bother planning for the future.

    Day of reckoning is almost here I feel and we are all gonna feel it. £80bn a year. Such a massive waste and one that could so easily have been avoided with some planning.
    There are basically 3 type of people in this world, those who can count and those who cant

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by weezer 316 View Post
    So in short no one did the right thing, either voters or govts, because it was inconvenient, despite all knowing such an issue would one day blow up in our faces? Riles me massively. The welfare state is there to care for those who struggle to themselves, not for those who worked fine all their lives and yet simply didnt bother putting protection in place. My great aunt retired with 2 pensions and only worked in a factory her whole life. Amazing what can be done when you bother planning for the future.

    Day of reckoning is almost here I feel and we are all gonna feel it. £80bn a year. Such a massive waste and one that could so easily have been avoided with some planning.
    WOuld have to agree with you !

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