How Much More Damage To This Country (Scotland) Can The SNP Do?

[cptdodger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-34234024

"Opposition parties accused Ms Sturgeon of breaking her "once-in-a-generation" referendum promise."

Since when did the SNP respect what the majority of the people want (as proved) ?

[squidge]

It will be outlined in their manifesto under what circumstances and how a second referendum may be possible. You don't have to vote for it. It's always in the manifesto - you have never HAD to vote for the SNP and you still don't HAVE to vote for the SNP. If people are happy to have another referendum under the circumstances which will be set out in the manifesto then they will vote for the SNP - if not, they won't. Respecting the will of the people is what the elected representatives of the SNP do every day they go to work in Westminster. If they didn't respect the fact that we remain part of the Union and need to operate as such then the MOs would either not have stood or would not turn up.

It's a shame that the UK government doesn't respect the fact that Scotland has its own devolved government and, in addition to excluding the Agriculture and fisheries minister from talks on fishing quotas which only affect Scotland they have also excluded Humza Yusaf from being part of a UK delegation to the UN summit on tackling global poverty despite him being Scotland's minister on Europe and International affairs and the person who should be representing Scotland's views within a UK delegation.

[cptdodger]

"Opposition parties accused Ms Sturgeon of breaking her "once-in-a-generation" referendum promise."

[squidge]

There was no once in a generation promise. Alex Salmond said that "in his view" the referendum was a once in a generation event. But that was his view. He did not sign the SNP up to a "promise". Like I said, it will be set out in the manifesto and you and EVERYONE else able to vote can choose to vote for it or not

[cptdodger]

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond told the BBC One's The Andrew Marr Show that if the majority of Scots vote No to independence on 18 September, there will be no second referendum on the subject within this "political generation".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Scotland.html

[BetterTogether]

It will be outlined in their manifesto under what circumstances and how a second referendum may be possible. You don't have to vote for it. It's always in the manifesto - you have never HAD to vote for the SNP and you still don't HAVE to vote for the SNP. If people are happy to have another referendum under the circumstances which will be set out in the manifesto then they will vote for the SNP - if not, they won't. Respecting the will of the people is what the elected representatives of the SNP do every day they go to work in Westminster. If they didn't respect the fact that we remain part of the Union and need to operate as such then the MOs would either not have stood or would not turn up. It's a shame that the UK government doesn't respect the fact that Scotland has its own devolved government and, in addition to excluding the Agriculture and fisheries minister from talks on fishing quotas which only affect Scotland they have also excluded Humza Yusaf from being part of a UK delegation to the UN summit on tackling global poverty despite him being Scotland's minister on Europe and International affairs and the person who should be representing Scotland's views within a UK delegation.

. Humza Yusaf is a junior cabinet minister his job is Minister for European Trade and International development , what part of a summit on global poverty would he have a part it playing. It isn't his department despite you getting his Job description wrong he has no place representing the UK Governmentfish in this role. You are deliberately playing fast in lose with the truth again and fanning the flames of discourse.

You also fail to mention that representation at the fishing quota talks is restricted to one per member state so he wasn't excluded by the UK Govt they sent someone to represent the whole UK rather than someone who only has a remit for Scotland. Once again fast and lose with the facts.

Again Squidge the First Minister at the time signed the Edinburgh Agreement which bound all those involved to respect the outcome, since then barely a week has past since the SNP have floated the idea of Indy2. Let's not to mention the numerous TV, Radio broadcasts which can be viewed each claiming " once in a lifetime " " once in a generation " it seems the SNP leadership are no more credible with the truth than those they accuse.

My personal opinion is the SNP leadership are now running scared of a rejuvenated Labour Party swinging further to the left and losing them precious voters as the life long Labour supporters start to realise the SNP is no more than Tory Lite or Tartan Tories as I've seen them being described.

[squidge]

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond told the BBC One's The Andrew Marr Show that if the majority of Scots vote No to independence on 18 September, there will be no second referendum on the subject within this "political generation". http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-Scotland.html

This is the quote from the Andrew Marr Show.

Asked today if he could pledge that “Alex Salmond will not bring another referendum if you don’t win this one”, the First Minister said: “That’s my view. In my view this is a once in a generation, perhaps even once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland.”He added: “Harold Wilson famously (said) one vote is enough in a referendum but we're not aiming to win by one vote, we're aiming to achieve a substantial majority if we can.“If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.“In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland.”

If you want to check that this is correct then you can read it here and you can even watch the video. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-9731885.html

Regardless of what the headlines say, regardless of what people might like to have been promised it is clear that Alex Salmond did not use the words promised, or pledged and made it perfectly clear that he was giving his own opinion and not that of the party. I am sorry that you were misled by the newspapers CPT but, Once again, you are free to choose NOT to vote for the SNP.

[cptdodger]

"The direct cost to the taxpayer of the Scottish independence referendum is set to exceed £16m but the true total, including related and knock-on costs, may never been known.

In 2013 in an impact assessment for the Scottish Parliament, the estimated price-tag was set at £13.3m, a rise of £3m on previous figures, with the cost of running the referendum itself accounting for £8.6m with another £4.7m spent on regulation and campaign mailshots. "


So basically the SNP are quite happy to throw good money after bad.

Nicola Sturgeon -

"It's then for people in Scotland, whether it is in this election or in future elections, to decide whether they want to vote for our manifesto and then if there is in the future another independence referendum, whether that's in five years or 10 years or whenever, it will be down to the people of Scotland to decide whether they want to vote for independence or not."

We categorically did decide, and it was NOT for independence. But hey, all the SNP and Yes voters will just ignore that tiny technicality and plough on no matter what the cost to the Country. If Scotland is bankrupt by the time the vote goes their way, so be it, they got what they wished for.

[cptdodger]

.

Again Squidge the First Minister at the time signed the Edinburgh Agreement which bound all those involved to respect the outcome, since then barely a week has past since the SNP have floated the idea of Indy2. Let's not to mention the numerous TV, Radio broadcasts which can be viewed each claiming " once in a lifetime " " once in a generation " it seems the SNP leadership are no more credible with the truth than those they accuse.

It appears you, me and the rest of the 55% that voted NO, misheard this !!

[BetterTogether]

Maybe we should start legal proceedings against Salmond and Sturgeon for lying to the electorate, considering SNP supporters have already set a precedent over a relatively insignificant issue with Alistair Carmichael I don't see any issue with the moral or legal issues.

It's on right that they be held equally to account in this more free fair society to the same rules they apply to others.

[squidge]

All they are doing is putting in the manifesto the commitment to an Independent Scotland - hardly a surprise even to you CPT.

As far as a 2nd referendum is concerned I understand the manifesto will outline the situations in which a 2nd referendum might be possible and how it will come about if the circumstances arise. Given that this is the case, then you will have clarity about the issue that so many of you have been demanding and stamping your feet about for ages whilst the rest of us have been busy getting on with selecting candidates, winning seats, implementing legislation and lobbying on a variety of policies.

Oh and you didn't mishear CPT - you were misled - by the press because it suited them to have you think that is what was said when it wasn't. It's really annoying when they do that isn't it.

[BetterTogether]

Sounds to me like the SNP are running scared of Mr Corbyn and his new revitalised Labour Party which is about to veer further left than the SNP ever dreamt of.

The old tired tactic of trying to link Labour with a progressive alliance with the SNP again trying to smear the party by association unfortunately I doubt Corbyn will allow that to happen again.

[BetterTogether]

Just to put an addendum to my previous post.

As Squidge is no doubt fully aware international development is a reserved matter under the devolution settlement. There is an overall limit on the size of the delegation attending with all the places allocated to Principal Ministers and Senior Officials.

Humza Yousaf is a Junior Minister so why would he expect a place apart from to air a grievance created out of thin air to suit a political purpose.

[cptdodger]

No I wasn't misled by the press about the Referendum being once in a lifetime/ generation , your newly elected Scottish National Party politician, Dr Paul Monaghan wrote that on his Facebook page, mind you that was way before the election.

And no of course it isn't a surprise to me the SNP want to throw millions of pounds down the drain on yet another pointless exercise.

[squidge]

Did HE promise, pledge or otherwise guarantee it? As he wasn't elected to anything at the time I would be surprised.

It's only a pointless exercise if no one wants it. As has been quite clearly stated a 2nd referendum will only happen if there is a material change and if the people of Scotland vote for a referendum. If people vote for a 2nd referendum then it's not pointless, if they don't then there won't be a referendum. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[cptdodger]

He assured me there would not be another Referendum for at least a generation (his words not mine). I believed that about as much as I believed his assurances pertaining to Caithness General if the SNP gained power. I don't know how many times I have to say this, the Country has already spoken, 55% of us voted NO, end of. The yes voters missed their chance, not enough people could be bullied into voting yes.

[BetterTogether]

Current poll shows that if a referendum was to take place it would still be 52% No but surprisingly 53% support Trident.

Given that polls frequently showed the Yes campaign doing significantly better than they actually did reality is of the SNP go for another referendum they'd lose.

That would end the fight for Independence pretty much for the rest of our lifetime.

3 attempts and no change would finish off the SNP for good unable to achieve the very reason for their exsistence their power would crumble and they would go back to being a minor party on the fringe of politics.

As it is their shambolic governance has yet to catch up with them but already they are 8 years into power by the next General Election it will be 13 years but they will no longer be able to lay the blame for everything at Weatminsters door with all their new powers.

We already have the unedifying situation where they are fighting multiple accusations of cronyism, what else will mire them down over the next few years.

More multi million pound contracts for party donators ?

A more failings in Education ?

More crisis in NHS Scotland ?

More problems with Police Scotland ?

More division in the country ? One thing they have failed totally to do is unify Scotland since the referendum.


More and more people are becoming worn down by the constant outrage of the SNP and throwing out threats of Indyref2 it does them no favours as they are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of political commentators with their constant outrage at every possible issue whilst ignoring the problems that they themselves have created.

Yet we still have not a single word about what they intend to do with all the new powers they are about to get.

No word on how they intend to transform Scotlands economy so it could weather Independence.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/pol...dence-1.899673

[squidge]

The Yes voters didn't miss their chance. They took their chance to vote yes. Having lost, we have just got on with whatever has happened next and that's what will happen with a second referendum. We shall just have to see what happens next. It's interesting for sure, we have the EU Referendum, the situation with Refugees, we have the issue of military action in Syria which is floating around the outskirts, we have the Scottish elections coming up, we have the welfare bill and the Scotlabd Bill still to be decided and we have Jeremy Corbyn. Interesting times for sure.

[cptdodger]

More division in the country ? One thing they have failed totally to do is unify Scotland since the referendum.


More and more people are becoming worn down by the constant outrage of the SNP and throwing out threats of Indyref2 it does them no favours as they are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of political commentators with their constant outrage at every possible issue whilst ignoring the problems that they themselves have created.

And that is what I was referring to when I said, how much more damage can the SNP do.

[BetterTogether]

Did HE promise, pledge or otherwise guarantee it? As he wasn't elected to anything at the time I would be surprised. It's only a pointless exercise if no one wants it. As has been quite clearly stated a 2nd referendum will only happen if there is a material change and if the people of Scotland vote for a referendum. If people vote for a 2nd referendum then it's not pointless, if they don't then there won't be a referendum. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

So he and the First Minister are happy to just pretend they didn't say " once in a lifetime " " once in a Generation " and play semantics with the English Language over its not a promise because I didn't say I promise or had my fingers crossed when I said it.

This is the child like ramblings of politicians who do not deserve to be in power they treat the electorate with contempt when they go back on their statements.

We now see how this has affected the political scene south of the border with political parties going through upheaval for the very same game the SNP are playing.

Which is simply taking the electorate for fools with insincerity and double talk.

One thing for certain their word is not to be trusted .