Your view on proposed legislation

[theone]

Well then it's all about getting out something if you're prepared to put something in, a mere hop and skip to private healthcare. Once you've scrapped the principal of universal healthcare its opening up a Pandora's box.

I wouldn't call it a Pandora's box.

There's already many treatments not available on the NHS but available elsewhere. Normally for money.

We're not talking about privitisation here. It's not about excluding the poor or benefitting the rich.

It would cost nothing financially to be on the 'receivers list', just a commitment to be on the 'donor's list'.

I really don't see how this challenges the principle of universal health care free at the point of need.

[cptdodger]

I don't know if any of you saw this http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b061b158, about transplants on BBC1, it's no longer available on the I Player, but it might be on youtube. It was very interesting, but on at some ridiculous hour (after midnight) I just came across it by accident.

[Alrock]

I used to donate plasma on a regular basis and be on the organ donation register but then I found out contrary to my beliefs that some organs donated to the NHS where being sold for profit, that's when I changed my mind and opted out.

So what, still no good to you...
Where is this profit going? I hope back into the NHS, but even if it's not that is a seperate issue, they might still save a life...

In my personal opinion, anybody who refuses is just being selfish but then again we do live in a very selfish society so it doesn't suprise me in the slightest.

[BetterTogether]

So what, still no good to you...Where is this profit going? I hope back into the NHS, but even if it's not that is a seperate issue, they might still save a life...In my personal opinion, anybody who refuses is just being selfish but then again we do live in a very selfish society so it doesn't suprise me in the slightest.

They where being sold to the private sector. Maybe you should investigate the procedure for organ donation before jumping all over people to try the modern bullying tactics because people disagree with you.

That'll be another bunch of people put off by the self righteous you should do what I tell you with your body attitude.


I'm obviously a lot more misanthropic than you'll ever be and don't see what the big deal about saving a few people who are hell bent on destroying the planet with their greed and self importance is anyway.

I've been around the block enough to know the human race in general isn't that wonderful a species.

7 billion is already far to many .

[Alrock]

They where being sold to the private sector....

But where was the money going?
If (as I suspect) it is going back into the NHS to help save lives in another way is that not just as good?

[cptdodger]

In my personal opinion, anybody who refuses is just being selfish but then again we do live in a very selfish society so it doesn't suprise me in the slightest.

It's not just a case of being selfish Alrock. Google anti rejection drugs. I saw first hand the effects they had on somebody who had had a heart transplant, back in 2000, I made up my mind then, after watching what happened to that person, that I would never have a transplant. Fast forward to 2008 when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune illness, which in layman's terms means my body is rejecting my liver. I don't remember much of that consultation, as I was in shock, but I do remember the Consultant telling me my illness might result in me needing a transplant. I am on record as saying I categorically do not want one.

Try finding out the reason why people do not want to donate their organs before you dismiss people as selfish. As it turns out they would not want my organs or blood, but even if they did (whoever they are) it is not their decision to make.

[Alrock]

It's not just a case of being selfish Alrock. Google anti rejection drugs. I saw first hand the effects they had on somebody who had had a heart transplant, back in 2000, I made up my mind then, after watching what happened to that person, that I would never have a transplant. Fast forward to 2008 when I was diagnosed with an autoimmune illness, which in layman's terms means my body is rejecting my liver. I don't remember much of that consultation, as I was in shock, but I do remember the Consultant telling me my illness might result in me needing a transplant. I am on record as saying I categorically do not want one..

That is a reason (albeit a good one) as to why someone might not want to recieve an organ, not a reason to not donate an organ.

Try finding out the reason why people do not want to donate their organs before you dismiss people as selfish. As it turns out they would not want my organs or blood, but even if they did (whoever they are) it is not their decision to make.

Well, just Googled "why people do not want to donate their organs" & the top results seem to be debunking the myths many people believe that put them off...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...organs/382297/

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...n/art-20047529

[cptdodger]

That is a reason (albeit a good one) as to why someone might not want to recieve an organ, not a reason to not donate an organ.



Well, just Googled "why people do not want to donate their organs" & the top results seem to be debunking the myths many people believe that put them off...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...organs/382297/

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...n/art-20047529

What I witnessed was not a myth. I am not going to go into details about the mans death, but it was bad enough that I would not want anybody else to go through what he did.

It is an individuals right to make up their own mind as to whether they wish to donate their organs or not, I cannot stress that enough.

[cptdodger]

That is a reason (albeit a good one) as to why someone might not want to recieve an organ, not a reason to not donate an organ.



Well, just Googled "why people do not want to donate their organs" & the top results seem to be debunking the myths many people believe that put them off...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...organs/382297/

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-li...n/art-20047529

I looked at these two links, and neither of them have the reason as to why I would not choose to donate, as I said, I have seen what happens after the transplant.

[Alrock]

It is an individuals right to make up their own mind as to whether they wish to donate their organs or not, I cannot stress that enough.

I never said anything about taking away an individuals right, if that is there decision then so be it, but I don't have to agree with it.

[cptdodger]

Having said all that, the person that posted this thread asked for our views, I was just giving mine. I can see where theone is coming from, why should you receive an organ if you are not willing to donate yourself, I do understand that, it is just not that black and white when it comes to illness, age and the person is not seen as mentally competent. They are not able to give consent for organ donation.

I have no objection if people want to donate their organs, or not as the case maybe. I just do not think ultimately, that decision should be taken out their hands.

[cptdodger]

I never said anything about taking away an individuals right, if that is there decision then so be it, but I don't have to agree with it.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning you, I was meaning the reason for this thread in the first place.

[cptdodger]

The Scottish Parliament's Health & Sport Committee are today asking people for their view on proposed legislation which would change the consent process for the transplantation of organs. The legislation, if passed, would create a soft opt-out system which would effectively mean that organs and tissue would be available for transplant unless there is a decision to the contrary.

Members of the public are being asked to give their view through the Committee’s online survey or by writing to the Committee. - See more at: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/ne....eKyTsE80.dpuf

This is what I was referring to.

[cptdodger]

but I don't have to agree with it.

Of course you don't, all I was saying is why I wouldn't.

[squidge]

I quite like the idea of an opt out system. Im not sure it's any more draconian or controlling than if you're not on our giving list you don't get to receive. Many folks don't think about death and our opinions can change during our lives. Imagine realising you need a transplant and for the first time understanding the need to give organs. Then being told that it's too late, you're not on the list. Imagine you are on the list by accident, it's a mistake. There would need to be an appeals process and everything. Imagine also the cost of keeping a list up to date, checking a list, amending a list as its far more crucial than now - because the accuracy of the list could be the difference in life or death. Nah, not for me. If we have an opt out the. People can still "opt out" but it makes things clearer and it's likely to lead to an increase in donations - seems like a no brainer to me

[BetterTogether]

seems like a no brainer to me

I have read there is chap who claims that soon head transplants will soon be possible, alas I don't think they will be able to find one that fits your particular requirements.

[squidge]

BTW the NHS doesn't sell organs. Selling organs is illegal in the UK. Organs that are not needed for anyone on the transplant list are donated to others. That is sometimes a private hospital, where people pay for a transplant operation - these people are generally non EU citizens. These organs are always organs which the NHS has declined first. Organs offered to foreign recipients would otherwise have been thrown away.

We may not have enough organs but it's not just about quantity, if the NHS gets a liver for example they have to have a match for that liver, if no match then it's no use to the NHS and they allow it to go elsewhere - usually to private hospitals where foreign patients with no entitlement to free NHS treatment may be a match for an organ and therefore may get their transplant.

[BetterTogether]

So the NHS give them away to private companies and then they are sold for foreign patients even though there aren't enough organs for UK patients.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...-patients.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-000-each.html

[cptdodger]

As I said, after what I witnessed in 2000, I vowed I would never have a transplant, or donate as I never wanted any other family to go through what my friend did with her husband. The time (you would think) for me to change my mind would have been when I was told a possible outcome to my illness could result in me needing a liver transplant. I didn't, I made it perfectly clear a transplant was not an option for me.

The problem being, people only get half the story, they don't get told the whole story.

[Fulmar]

I have read there is chap who claims that soon head transplants will soon be possible, alas I don't think they will be able to find one that fits your particular requirements.

Ah, but will there be one for you, BT, that is the question? One that transforms you into a 'touchy-feely' lovable person who cannot do enough for his fellow humans, perhaps? Now, that really would be something to celebrate!