Also Today

[cptdodger]

Technically Muslims, Christians and Jews do all follow the same God. Problem come in that the Jews don't accept Jesus was the son of God. The Muslims accept he was a prophet but Mohamed was also a prophet. Look at the multi factions you have within Christianity alone to see the problem it causes. One man interprets it one way another differently they can't agree so two new factions are created then it splits again and again. All the same one God all of them just as deluded about how they are right and everyone else is wrong. All claiming they want peace but constantly starting wars off down through the centuries and killing millions in the process. At the end of day not a shred of proof that God actually exists and isn't just an amalgam of previously held Gods rolled into one more easily digested and manipulated for whatever purpose you desire deity. Let's not forget the other religions Buddism and Hinduism. If I'm correct Hiduism is probably the older out of the Bunch. Buddism certainly predates Islam but was pushed out of its native country of origin Pakistan by Islam and off over to Tibet, China.

Now don't even try to understand the various ethnic and tribal partitions of the Middle East, North Africa,Balkans and Indian Sub Continent or you'll really give yourself a headache. All divided by more petty rubbish than you'd care to know about and all out for a fight without too much of an excuse frequently using arguments that go back centuries.

It is just so complicated, I never knew that about Buddism though starting in Pakistan, I honestly thought it originated in Tibet.

[cptdodger]

It's very easy to demand that the UK take more refugees but it's not going to be the Highlands that bears the brunt of the influx it will be the already densely populated cities and towns down south. Until you've experience of the problems this creates in some areas be very careful what you wish on others but don't have to deal with yourself.

Imagine the outcry if Wick or Thurso suddenly had say 1,000 refugees injected into the community in fairly short order.

And that is a very good point.

[squidge]

How come if France and Germany haven't been doing their share they have the same percentage of their population who are immigrants as the UK? Oh let's see. Britain has taken 200 refugees that's hardly doing OUR share is it

And all this about different religions and which are good and which are not so good makes no difference. A dead child is a dead child, 2500 dead people are still 2500 dead people. You can't tell what religion they are when they are dead.

[squidge]

And at last David Cameron has said that Britain WILL take more refugees - who says public pressure doesn't work or that we can't make a difference.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...485195.htmlThe

Aid collections have gone crazy today and there are folk coming down from Caithness tomorrow and Saturday. Any of you who got the Inverness details who want the Caithness details then PM me.

[theone]

This is a difficult and tragic situation, but in this - as in most things - I'd prefer to see the cause of the problem eliminated. You can give paracetamol to help a headache but if the cause is a tumour, sooner or later you're going to have to operate.

Syria was, and can be again, a wonderful country with wealth and culture. Only by stopping the fighting there can it be again. But history shows us that rarely do refugees return 'home' after the famine/war/tyranny is over.

The numbers coming to Europe are huge, tens and hundreds of thousands, but to take these people in and provide for them is to do so for the minority. The vast majority of Syrians who suffer are still in Syria and will never leave. Those without the money or ability to pack up and head for Europe. To help those arriving in the boats is a disservice to those left where the real trouble is.

Britain might be getting all sorts of accusations thrown at it at the moment, but the fact is, whatever we do today with these refugees is irrelevant. Because tomorrow, once Germany has taken them in and given them passports they are free to come to the UK to live/work as any other 'European'.

[squidge]

It's not irrelevant to the refugees though theone and its only a disservice when we opt for BTs you can do one or the other but not both. Our response needs to be to do both

[BetterTogether]

How come if France and Germany haven't been doing their share they have the same percentage of their population who are immigrants as the UK? Oh let's see. Britain has taken 200 refugees that's hardly doing OUR share is itAnd all this about different religions and which are good and which are not so good makes no difference. A dead child is a dead child, 2500 dead people are still 2500 dead people. You can't tell what religion they are when they are dead.

As per usual you're remarkably selective about quoting figures.

Between 2006 and 2010 we accepted almost 10,000 more over the five year period than Germany.

2014 some 32344 applied the highest number since 2004. First quarter of 2015 is 7435. In the first three months Germany received 83130 so they'd have to massively ramp up their processing to attain 800,000.

Very few genuine Syrians are turned down although increasingly people from other countries destroy their papers and claim to be Syrian.

Lord Green of Deddington from Migration watch argues, based on on the UKs net migration rate of 330,000 last year, our total population would grow by 3 million every 5 years.

Contrasting this to Germany with its low birth rate its population would fall by 25% if it had no net migration.

England is nearly twice as crowded as Germany and has more migrants per head of population.

[BetterTogether]

How come if France and Germany haven't been doing their share they have the same percentage of their population who are immigrants as the UK? Oh let's see. Britain has taken 200 refugees that's hardly doing OUR share is itAnd all this about different religions and which are good and which are not so good makes no difference. A dead child is a dead child, 2500 dead people are still 2500 dead people. You can't tell what religion they are when they are dead.

Everyday approximately 151600 people die I don't see or hear you wringing your hands to save all of them.

[BetterTogether]

It's not irrelevant to the refugees though theone and its only a disservice when we opt for BTs you can do one or the other but not both. Our response needs to be to do both

Yup we can give them temporary asylum and papers then return them all home when their country settles down.

No problem with that, but that's not what's on offer is it.

Reality is you're talking about permanently giving residence to these people once they make it these shores with no attempt to ever repatriate any of them.

Also why is it all these people so desperate to escape fear and oppression aren't happy to be processed in Hungary but are creating all manner of problems because they WANT to go to Germany.

Surely any decent country is good enough if you're a genuine asylum seeker where as a economic migrant would have a very distinct idea of which country they want to live in.

[theone]

It's not irrelevant to the refugees though theone and its only a disservice when we opt for BTs you can do one or the other but not both. Our response needs to be to do both

It's obviously not irrelevant to them.

But I don't see how giving people asylum is helping the situation. Sure, help these people with their short terms needs, but why should they be getting citizenship? Lets sort out Syria then send them all home again. There's no need to keep them here.

I feel true sorrow for what these people faced at home. But they aren't fleeing a war in Turkey. Or in Greece. Or in Hungary. But they still want to leave these places. Every night thousands try to get through the channel tunnel. Remind me what persecution or war or famine they are escaping from in France?

Fix Syria then send them home.

[squidge]

You may very well be right, but if we keep people as stateless almost, in a situation where they can't return home but can't stay, can't work, they can't begin to rebuild their lives or settle. They daren't marry or gave children if the threat of being forcibly returned home whether they like it or not is there. That might take 20 years, 30, how long do we make them wait before allowing them to stay?

They want to get from Hungary into Germany because they will have those rights in Germany. What we know about Calais is that many of those people are waiting for their asylum applications to be decided, many have relatives in Britain so they want to be here for that reason. And actually, having a connection to a country is a reason to allow people to claim asylum out with the first country they arrive in. Turkey already has 2 million refugees and is struggling with little support from the international community. Greece too is struggling. It's no wonder refugees move through these places. It's a mess, but it's not a mess simply because of the refugees, it's a mess because the governments have failed to work together in the way they should have done

[theone]

You may very well be right, but if we keep people as stateless almost in a situation where they can't return home but can't stay, can't work, they can't begin to rebuild their lives or settle. They daren't marry or gave children if the threat of being forcibly returned home whether they like it or not is there. That might take 20 years, 30, how long do we make them wait before allowing them to stay?

Good question.

It might take a long time, or maybe only a couple of years.

Maybe we could grant them a 2, 3 or 5 year Visa, after which time they could apply permantly (if they were a benefit for us) or be sent home.

But that's where the debate with government should be, not 'let them all in' or 'do our share'.

As much as I realise this subject divides the population here, I can't help but feel that tens of thousabds of Arabs and Africans crossing into Britain with German passports is going to have a negative effect on trying to stay in the EU following the referendum.

[BetterTogether]

They aren't stateless though Squidge unless they've destroyed their papers and made themselves as such.

What you're actually suggesting is we open our doors to mass immigration again not allowing asylum seekers to reside in safety until their countries become safe again. Also we just accept their word they are from Syria despite evidence to the contrary being freely available.

[squidge]

And you know what BT it matters not what you say any more honey, the response for aid has gone through the roof today we can't keep up! David Cameron has been forced to do the right thing and compassion is winning the day. You can take your figures and stuff them I'm proud of the things that are being done and the changes that are happening. it's fantastic and hopefully we will no longer have to see pictures of dead babies on European beaches. I'm so pleased tonight that things are looking even a little more hopeful I could almost Kiss YOU! I'm off to organise sorters and helpers. You can volunteer to help if you would like

[gleeber]

That's great Squidge. I could handle a small family for a while.

[squidge]

Oh and Celtic are having a legends match this weekend with Dunfermline and the proceeds are going to refugees more smiles

[BetterTogether]

And you know what BT it matters not what you say any more honey, the response for aid has gone through the roof today we can't keep up! David Cameron has been forced to do the right thing and compassion is winning the day. You can take your figures and stuff them I'm proud of the things that are being done and the changes that are happening. it's fantastic and hopefully we will no longer have to see pictures of dead babies on European beaches. I'm so pleased tonight that things are looking even a little more hopeful I could almost Kiss YOU! I'm off to organise sorters and helpers. You can volunteer to help if you would like

There we have a prime example of Squidge at her self righteous best, she takes a few examples and whips them up into the whole nation walking in step behind her. You can take your contributions and followers but that doesn't mean the whole country enmasse is behind you. How about time you started caring about your own country and the residents within rather than blindly leaping from cause to cause without any thought given to the long term ramifications or your actions.Just more demeaning conflated piffle from you as usual.

[gleeber]

Boy boy. What a nasty bit of work you are Mr Together

[squidge]

Oh BT! I guess we have already established you think it's impossible to do more than one thing at once. Fortunately most of us are able to do a few things at once. What a spiteful thing you are. I hope the tide is turning BT but if it's not I'll keep juggling stuff to make time for this until it does. After all it's not like it's just me. There are LOADS of us!

[Rheghead]

No one is denying that the death of any indvidual is a tragic thing but to get diverted from the greater picture doesn't resolve the issue.

You really don't need to lecture me on what death looks like Squidge unlike yourself I've seen plenty of the inhumanity mankind inflicts upon itself.

I'd say the death of a 3 year old plus 2500 others is the greater picture.