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Thread: Asylum seekers/Refugees Calais

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    Please to remember that these are PEOPLE just like you and me. Dying at home or dying to cross the Mediterranean or to get into the Tunnel by whatever means, it now seems all the same to them. Desperate people who feel that they have absolutely nothing to lose and willing to risk their very life as have no other option. Have you ever been in that position- thanks to an accident of birth, (being born in a 'civilised country), I have not and I thank God for that. So they are being handed everything on a plate are they- like living in squalor in that hell hole of a camp in Calais or in detention centres in England you mean, or now, facing being summarily evicted onto the street in the UK if they are discovered to be illegal; (the latest 'humane' wheeze from the Tories, along with cutting every means of support, including for vulnerable children). Do you know who will step in when that happens, the charitable sector such as Crisis and the churches who at least have some sense of humanity and compassion. We cannot take everyone in, of course we cannot, but we could take some people and we could treat the others for who they are- people the same as ourselves and as 'ourselves', we should be able to recognise that we might do exactly the same in their position.
    It seems ironic to me that there has been such a stooshie over the 'golliwog' incident up here when some of the comments about these poor people are, to me at least, highly offensive and borderline racist.
    If you would care to re read what I actually wrote -

    I was talking to somebody that said "if it was'nt for the UK Government handing everything to them (the people trying to get here) on a plate basically, there would not be this problem"
    Last edited by cptdodger; 04-Aug-15 at 13:18.

  2. #22
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    Fair points fulmar but you have to consider the other side. These people have travelled across Europe, so already passed through fully westernised societies, there are plenty of opportunities for these people to go through the normal channels to get into this country but they choose to avoid those routes and follow a route of illegality to try and force themselves into the country, which also happens to be pretty much the most densely populated country in Europe. Are you suggesting we throw open the doors to anyone prepared to break the law to enter the country ? There is no easy answer, yes the plight of people in many countries around the world is a lot worse than ours but that doesn't mean we should just throw open the doors to anyone who wants to ignore the rules and just force themselves upon the country. Should we pander to people smugglers and encourage them to perpetrate their vile trade.
    Last edited by BetterTogether; 04-Aug-15 at 12:36.

  3. #23

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    BBC News abstract : The situation in Calais is part of a wider migration crisis in Europe -caused largely by the displacement of people from war-torn countries such as Syria, Afghanistan, and Eritrea, and also North Africa ie displaced people from WAR TORN COUNTRIES.
    Many want to claim asylum in the UK. Others want to enter the country incognito to remain as illegal workers. So some who seel asylum are genuine others are not.....The British Red Cross said most migrants wanted to make the move because they believed there was a better prospect of finding work in the UK, or speak English and want to use the language. Others have relatives in the UK, or are drawn by a belief that there is better housing and education available.The UK is certainly not alone as a target destination. According to the EU's statistics body Eurostat, Germany saw the most non-EUasylum seekers in 2014 - almost 203,000 - followed by Sweden, Italy, France,Hungary, and then the UK....being 6th choice.

    Last edited by rob murray; 04-Aug-15 at 15:23.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Sad to see this mess assuming such epic proportions. I'm wondering why the UK govt hasn't launched an action through the European court to stop the French creating this problem and it is very much a French problem, the refugees / asylum seekers are supposed to be dealt with at point of entry into Europe. The UK is obviously not these persons point of entry but to all intents and purposes other European states have colluded to create safe passage for these people to get to the UK.
    Yeah.....see https://calaismigrantsolidarity.wordpress.com/

  5. #25

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    We cannot take everyone in, of course we cannot, but we could take some people

    Perhaps we should reflect on the inglorious colonial past of not only the UK but of many others among the major European players in all of this, not to mention are even more recent interference in the Middle East and ask what part all that might have to play in the current exodus of people seeking a better life in the west. We exploited these countries for their mineral and oil wealth and participated in war and death and destruction in the countries that some of them hail from and now the poorest are perhaps thinking that it is time there was some redistribution and equity.
    I do not believe that these people are 'choosing' at all. As I said above, I believe that they are totally desperate and have been exploited at every turn. No, of course I would prefer everything to be above board and legal and to go through the 'proper channels' whatever these are but it is government policy to turn as many people as possible away- we all know that. Sweden is taking in far more people than we are. The willingness to see something more equitable starts as far as I am concerned with myself and a willingness to think that there should be something much better and fairer in place- and I would give someone a helping hand if I was able to and offended by Cameron's 'swarm' reference when he and his ilk have never known deprivation, persecution and abject poverty and lack the imagination to even contemplate it.

  6. #26
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    Fulmar we can dwell on our colonial past if you wish but then every country that has ever had a dabble in another's affairs should be held equally accountable so where do we stop with the historical grievances how far back should we go ? I'm sure if you feel so strongly about helping these people you could advertise a spare room or two for them to reside in no one is stopping you aiding them. I mean there's plenty of room up here for more people and I'm sure the friendly people of Caithness would be overjoyed to see people from all over Africa and the Middle East descending on their towns to aid the cultural diversity of the place.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    We cannot take everyone in, of course we cannot, but we could take some people

    Perhaps we should reflect on the inglorious colonial past of not only the UK but of many others among the major European players in all of this, not to mention are even more recent interference in the Middle East and ask what part all that might have to play in the current exodus of people seeking a better life in the west. We exploited these countries for their mineral and oil wealth and participated in war and death and destruction in the countries that some of them hail from and now the poorest are perhaps thinking that it is time there was some redistribution and equity.
    I do not believe that these people are 'choosing' at all. As I said above, I believe that they are totally desperate and have been exploited at every turn. No, of course I would prefer everything to be above board and legal and to go through the 'proper channels' whatever these are but it is government policy to turn as many people as possible away- we all know that. Sweden is taking in far more people than we are. The willingness to see something more equitable starts as far as I am concerned with myself and a willingness to think that there should be something much better and fairer in place- and I would give someone a helping hand if I was able to and offended by Cameron's 'swarm' reference when he and his ilk have never known deprivation, persecution and abject poverty and lack the imagination to even contemplate it.
    Read the url piece......safe passage....= deaths, imprisonment, absolute police brutality.....yep our French friends are fairly making it easy for these people. Would agree and disagree with your points....agreement lies in the fact that a fair % of people are absultely desperate to get to UK ( for family reasons , but a % have rather dubious desires to come to the UK ( ie illegal work ), diagreement totally in "we exploited these countries".....you forget to mention the top boss exploiters....the US of A

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    Fulmar we can dwell on our colonial past if you wish but then every country that has ever had a dabble in another's affairs should be held equally accountable so where do we stop with the historical grievances how far back should we go ? I'm sure if you feel so strongly about helping these people you could advertise a spare room or two for them to reside in no one is stopping you aiding them. I mean there's plenty of room up here for more people and I'm sure the friendly people of Caithness would be overjoyed to see people from all over Africa and the Middle East descending on their towns to aid the cultural diversity of the place.
    I think this post has let you down, you should reconsider your last sentence
    Last edited by rob murray; 04-Aug-15 at 15:56.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    It seems ironic to me that there has been such a stooshie over the 'golliwog' incident up here when some of the comments about these poor people are, to me at least, highly offensive and borderline racist.
    I will just point out that my previous post -

    [It's not just the Mayor of Calais that blames the UK Government, it's some of the British Public as well. I used to live in Kent, and I have to tell you, Operation Stack is a living nightmare, it was bad enough once in a while but now it seems to be every second day. I was talking to somebody about it and they said, if it was'nt for the UK Government handing everything to them (the people trying to get here) on a plate basically, there would not be this problem. This is not just a problem in Kent, it is now affecting the whole country.]

    was in response to BetterTogether saying that the Mayor of Calais blames the UK Government for the crisis. The point I was trying to make, in which I have now been branded a racist, was - a lot of British people believe that it is our Governments fault as well, the people in Kent who are losing their businesses as a direct result of Operation Stack, which is even affecting D Steven and Son and that is a Wick company.

    I do'nt believe I ever said that I agreed or disagreed with that view, but if you want to lecture somebody, go down to Kent on any given day that Operation Stack is in place, and you have a go at them, because it was these people that are affected now, it seems on a daily basis that think that.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by cptdodger View Post
    I will just point out that my previous post -

    [It's not just the Mayor of Calais that blames the UK Government, it's some of the British Public as well. I used to live in Kent, and I have to tell you, Operation Stack is a living nightmare, it was bad enough once in a while but now it seems to be every second day. I was talking to somebody about it and they said, if it was'nt for the UK Government handing everything to them (the people trying to get here) on a plate basically, there would not be this problem. This is not just a problem in Kent, it is now affecting the whole country.]

    was in response to BetterTogether saying that the Mayor of Calais blames the UK Government for the crisis. The point I was trying to make, in which I have now been branded a racist, was - a lot of British people believe that it is our Governments fault as well, the people in Kent who are losing their businesses as a direct result of Operation Stack, which is even affecting D Steven and Son and that is a Wick company.

    I do'nt believe I ever said that I agreed or disagreed with that view, but if you want to lecture somebody, go down to Kent on any given day that Operation Stack is in place, and you have a go at them, because it was these people that are affected now, it seems on a daily basis that think that.
    You are not a rascist ...period.... you clearly state you do'nt believe you ever said that you agreed or disagreed with the view "qouted"... !!

  11. #31

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    I'm afraid my post was muddled which is why I posted again. I was thinking at that point of Cameron's 'swarm' reference and not of you at all but should not have coupled it with the golly thing so a complete misunderstanding.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulmar View Post
    I'm afraid my post was muddled which is why I posted again. I was thinking at that point of Cameron's 'swarm' reference and not of you at all but should not have coupled it with the golly thing so a complete misunderstanding.
    Nothing wrong with using the word swarm for people unless you're trying politicise an issue

    Here's a copy from the Oxford Dictionary.


    1.2 (a swarm/swarms of) A large number of people or things:a swarm of journalists

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob murray View Post
    I think this post has let you down, you should reconsider your last sentence
    Are you suggesting that Caithness would not welcome people of multiple nationalities to come reside within our beautiful area. When you consider the SNP want to impose more immigration on us it should be totally acceptable to anyone. It's happening right across the length and breadth of the country it's only a matter of time before this area has to embrace it as fully as anywhere else.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterTogether View Post
    I mean there's plenty of room up here for more people and I'm sure the friendly people of Caithness would be overjoyed to see people from all over Africa and the Middle East descending on their towns to aid the cultural diversity of the place.
    Aye, why not?....at least those dressing up during Gala Week will blend in.

    Tell me what "More People in Caithness" will do for work?, what will they do for the community? what will they do for themselves? Where are the houses for them? I'm all for helping people in need but these migrants need to be handled differently to just being allowed into the UK. If the govt went about it properly and maybe built a few decent sized "hotels" in the area they would at least be safe and warm whilst their background story is checked out unlike France who just lets them get on with it. They all have issues but just accepting anybody into the country is a bad move. I read a story a while back that there are probably quite a number of terrorists posing as migrants in Calais just biding their time waiting to come to the UK and cause mayhem....I'll see if i can find the link.

  15. #35
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    Isn't Raymond building a hotel and there are plenty of hotels up here with the govt giving them free accommodation and £35 a week that would be a tremendous boost for the local economy, the BBC are always interviewing people in Calais who reliably inform us they are highly skilled doctors dentists etc they would probably fill all the NHS positions that are hard to fill, and then you'd have plenty of builders, drivers storemen and various other jobs, filled quickly it would do wonders for the local economy no more having to wait for stuff as there would be plenty of people to do any kind of job you want doing and all probably well below market rates. All it really means is Caithness would become no different to the rest of the UK. Don't forget there are plenty of unemployed elsewhere so it shouldn't really be part of the equation whether or not we have jobs for them.

  16. #36

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    +fulmar frankie boyle wrote a good article for the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/c...igrants-calais
    AAR

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien Adrenaline Reflex View Post
    +fulmar frankie boyle wrote a good article for the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/c...igrants-calais
    That would be the same Frankie Boyle who lost his TV show for insulting and mocking a disabled child I take it ?

    The same man who is desperately trying to resurrect his career ?

    Or is it another of the same name.

  18. #38

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    right so the content of the article makes no sense. did you read it or did you do what you seem to always do and judge it on the characher of the author?
    AAR

  19. #39

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    sorry but my nephew has just slapped me for my non-use (i thinik you'll call it) of a spewll checker. Bloody tories!!! aparantly I have to install one and it will change my lefe. FDingers crossed....
    AAR

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien Adrenaline Reflex View Post
    +fulmar frankie boyle wrote a good article for the guardian http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/c...igrants-calais

    This article is from the BBC News Website - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33781283 - Calais migrant crisis : Hauliers owe £4m in fines.

    A section from that report -
    "They have tools to break locks and knives to cut curtain-sided vehicles. It's just not safe for drivers to get out of their cabs to prevent this."
    Joanne Witheford, Road transport lawyer.

    The lorry drivers are now in fear for their lives, and that is what they face every time they go through Calais.



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