So Called jihadi brides

[tonkatojo]

I really do not get it, the news is always of these people leaving the UK to be one of these or fighters or what have you. There are those who say the UK government should be stopping them going, why is my question. If they want that way of life why deter them, if our way of life is not of their liking why stop them, but let it be known it is irreversible a one way only or we in the UK would be subjected to risk of more radicalised or easily turned folk that preach hatred similar to the ones who beheaded off duty Fusilier Lee Rigby shouting "Allah Akbar. The law should be changed if need be to ensure they do not return.
An interesting view is put out by a news paper here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...di-brides.html

[Sgitheanach]

Let them go but don't let them back

[rob murray]

I really do not get it, the news is always of these people leaving the UK to be one of these or fighters or what have you. There are those who say the UK government should be stopping them going, why is my question. If they want that way of life why deter them, if our way of life is not of their liking why stop them, but let it be known it is irreversible a one way only or we in the UK would be subjected to risk of more radicalised or easily turned folk that preach hatred similar to the ones who beheaded off duty Fusilier Lee Rigby shouting "Allah Akbar. The law should be changed if need be to ensure they do not return.
An interesting view is put out by a news paper here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...di-brides.html

Spot on...why the hullaballo over this...if they wish to go let them but as you say they dont get back...fairs fair, nothing wrong with that approach.

[Kevin Milkins]

I thought the same and the only conclusion that I could come up with as to why we would be bothered about them leaving the UK is because they know the lay of the land here.

I think the knowledge of the UK and its customs and law could be of value to those that would seek to destroy our way of life and culture.

[tonkatojo]

It's not often I agree with David Cameron the PM but on this occasion I do, now we have have Baroness Warsi disagreeing and why, could it be she hears something that goes against her religious beliefs or her religious community and ethnic nationality or when push comes to shove she is Muslim right or wrong ?. My personal thought is all in our country should be able to fully integrate into British society NOT different ethnic segregations or different nationalities or religious belief ghettos. I presume people came to the UK for its way of life and tolerance to others not for them to form small foreign nations living foreign ways of life, religions are a personal belief and should be kept personal, if the British way of tolerance is not to the liking of those religions go back to the counties that tolerate those beliefs, as those "jihadi" folk have done. Cameron has it right when he says not enough Muslims are condemning the Muslim extremism version of Islam, one or two have but it is the silent ones I worry about is it that they too are thinking the extremism version and are almost at the turning point or is it another reason I do not grasp. Every day hundreds even thousands more are arriving from North Africa wanting to share the European way of life, let them, but they should integrate fully in the countries they eventually stay at and not try and form their old failed different national way of life there or what is the point of coming in the first place.

[davth]

It's not often I agree with David Cameron the PM but on this occasion I do, now we have have Baroness Warsi disagreeing and why, could it be she hears something that goes against her religious beliefs or her religious community and ethnic nationality or when push comes to shove she is Muslim right or wrong ?. My personal thought is all in our country should be able to fully integrate into British society NOT different ethnic segregations or different nationalities or religious belief ghettos. I presume people came to the UK for its way of life and tolerance to others not for them to form small foreign nations living foreign ways of life, religions are a personal belief and should be kept personal, if the British way of tolerance is not to the liking of those religions go back to the counties that tolerate those beliefs, as those "jihadi" folk have done. Cameron has it right when he says not enough Muslims are condemning the Muslim extremism version of Islam, one or two have but it is the silent ones I worry about is it that they too are thinking the extremism version and are almost at the turning point or is it another reason I do not grasp. Every day hundreds even thousands more are arriving from North Africa wanting to share the European way of life, let them, but they should integrate fully in the countries they eventually stay at and not try and form their old failed different national way of life there or what is the point of coming in the first place.

On the other hand, I know of several locals that have emigrated.
They stay in small cliques and do not really integrate with the nationals.
OK they are not committing or plotting acts of terrorism but have hardly embraced their chosen home

[Fulmar]

I personally remember what it was like to be young; to see things in black and white terms; to be led away with enthusiasm for causes while lacking the maturity, wisdom and understanding to fully be able to evaluate things. I believe that now, young people are being deliberately and cynically manipulated in ways that were not possible when I was young, pre-internet and all that. I certainly would not want to live in a world where mistakes in youth could never be forgiven and that seems to be the tone of things on here. Also, genuine repentance is possible in almost all people and I believe in hoping for that.
Only yesterday, I heard a report on Radio 4 stating how truly horrendous it is for all those would-be female 'jihadis' who having got themselves into the clutches of Isis, are now having second thoughts and want to get out. The truth is that as things stand, none of them are ever likely to be able to return, even if they want to so it is probably academic. Nevertheless, if it were possible for it to happen,then I would not want to see the door slammed shut on them. Apart from anything else, their true life experiences of torture, rape and abuse might prove the most powerful disincentive to others. Let's face it, we need all the help we can get to counter what is happening.
I am not sure how helpful David Cameron's statement is in the light of the fact that the vast majority of people of Muslim faith deplore what is happening and they are bearing the awful brunt of the brutality of Isis. It is, I think, as it always is. Many are speaking out and saying what their faith is really all about and how upset they are about it being twisted by brutal Isis but this does not get reported in the press- only the negatives make it into there. We all have to work together on this and that will not happen by pointing the finger and laying blame.

[davth]

if it were possible for it to happen,then I would not want to see the door slammed shut on them.

would you apply this to the young men that left the UK bound for Syria and the like?

[RWB]

the fact is you can't leave ISIS when you've had enough, they execute those that try to leave.


i think we have to stop them leaving the UK in the first place because anyone determined enough can enter this country illegally ... and then what ?

[Sgitheanach]

If you keep people who want to go and live with terrorists from leaving the UK how long before they blow up a bus or train it is the same if they are allowed to return after going to Syria they could never be trusted .

[Fulmar]

Well, I was talking specifically about young people in my post and I have nothing further to add or contribute except..........I might happen to be visiting a Christian church in the southern USA.....
Violence and downright evil exists everywhere as far as I can see. What would you all have done about the Hitler Youth then after the Second World War- another example of young people being brainwashed and manipulated, or Chairman Mao and his student brigades, all waving their little red books? Locked them all up and thrown away the key? What about the child soldiers in Southern Sudan and elsewhere? What would you do with them then, young boys (and girls) torn from their families and forced to kill or be killed and damaged beyond belief as a result? If they are victims (and most people think that they are), then why are impressionable young people in this country who are being brain washed not invite your sympathy and understanding?
Does there not always, in the end, have to be some form of analysis and eventual reconciliation?
If we do not all work together in all ways in this country to combat the evil posed by Isis, people of all races and faiths and none then the problem is only going to get worse, in my view but that is the end of my contribution on the subject.

[RWB]

If you keep people who want to go and live with terrorists from leaving the UK how long before they blow up a bus or train it is the same if they are allowed to return after going to Syria they could never be trusted .

but if a person has been radicalised, then can they not be de-radicalised ?

what about rehabilitation ? should people who have done their time get a another chance ?

what about the IRA ? they used to love blowing us up

[davth]

but if a person has been radicalised, then can they not be de-radicalised ?

what about rehabilitation ? should people who have done their time get a another chance ?

what about the IRA ? they used to love blowing us up

I would pursue every IRA member to seek justice

[sids]

I would pursue every IRA member to seek justice

Off you go then.

[davth]

Off you go then.

Aaah
well
Im a bit busy, and like to run a bit so would rather retain my kneecaps in one piece.

I should have said We, not I, eh?

[Fulmar]

I find that I do have one last thing to add after all!
Someone mentioned on here about 'being in London'. Well, as it happens, I am there one or two times each year- and I travel on the Underground and Overground and on the buses. I have never felt threatened in any way. While being down there I do, of course, see people of many and all nationalities and faiths and so what I do, as my tiny contribution, is smile at people, say 'hello' and make eye contact- if an appropriate opportunity presents itself. I always remind myself that some of the people that I encounter may have had negative or even racist comments thrown there way from such as I and therefore I think that I can do my very little bit to counter all of that and you know what, most folk respond in kind to a smile and a 'hello' and it is a very easy thing to do and part of the bigger picture, maybe. So that is my contribution to the 'all working together' part of my post.

[rob murray]

I find that I do have one last thing to add after all!
Someone mentioned on here about 'being in London'. Well, as it happens, I am there one or two times each year- and I travel on the Underground and Overground and on the buses. I have never felt threatened in any way. While being down there I do, of course, see people of many and all nationalities and faiths and so what I do, as my tiny contribution, is smile at people, say 'hello' and make eye contact- if an appropriate opportunity presents itself. I always remind myself that some of the people that I encounter may have had negative or even racist comments thrown there way from such as I and therefore I think that I can do my very little bit to counter all of that and you know what, most folk respond in kind to a smile and a 'hello' and it is a very easy thing to do and part of the bigger picture, maybe. So that is my contribution to the 'all working together' part of my post.

Nice touch..genuinely well done !

[tonkatojo]

Do I sense a claim for compensation arising on this subject of the 3 Bradford sisters and children who went to Syria, it beggers belief why the authorities should have to monitor these folk for them wanting to leave the UK for any reason.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...family-lawyers

[Kenn]

I can to a certain extent understand the thinking of some of the Muslim community.
The woman who is purported to have said that she did not wish her daughters to be brought up here, I can sympathise with, the pictures that are all over the media showing how a small percentage of young women behave is enough to give any parent cause for concern but equally if she could not accept that there is a completely different culture here then what was she doing in the country?
Now what really surprises me about the whole matter is the fact that the husbands are claiming they knew nothing of their wives plans.
Excuse me sirs, you agreed to your wives and children going on a pilgrimage to Mecca , did you not check where and when they would return?
Did you supply them with enough credit that they could purchase air line tickets for a whole family to a different destination?
Something about this smells not of incense but fish !

[davth]

I can to a certain extent understand the thinking of some of the Muslim community.
The woman who is purported to have said that she did not wish her daughters to be brought up here, I can sympathise with, the pictures that are all over the media showing how a small percentage of young women behave is enough to give any parent cause for concern but equally if she could not accept that there is a completely different culture here then what was she doing in the country?
Now what really surprises me about the whole matter is the fact that the husbands are claiming they knew nothing of their wives plans.
Excuse me sirs, you agreed to your wives and children going on a pilgrimage to Mecca , did you not check where and when they would return?
Did you supply them with enough credit that they could purchase air line tickets for a whole family to a different destination?
Something about this smells not of incense but fish !

supply them with credit???
My other half could just book her tickets online no issues, should she want to.
Do women still get drip fed housekeeping money these das?
I quite believe they could sneak off with the kiddies without dads knowledge, women are, after all, snakes with breasts